Nitefly SA Posted August 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 (edited) OK to clear everything up...Agile and rondo music products in general are out...greco or tokai is my best bet right now,i dont even want a gibson les paul, from what i hear they have some BAD quality control issues, like grain coming through the finsh, unleveled frets, sharp fret edges, just general crappiness. and if you are going to shell out 2 grand you should get a friggin perfect guitar. Edited August 17, 2005 by Nitefly SA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 PLEASE don't buy an Epiphone... my friend got an SG-Special and I can tell you that even for a starter guitar it's REALLY bad. You say you have a FAT strat? the ones that are mahogany or alder?? I don't see why if it's mahogany that with good HBs you wouldn't be able to at least get anywhere near slash's sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 ,i dont even want a gibson les paul, from what i hear they have some BAD quality control issues, like grain coming through the finsh, unleveled frets, sharp fret edges, just general crappiness. and if you are going to shell out 2 grand you should get a friggin perfect guitar. i have a gibson les paul studio plus 99...i got it for under $1000 brand new,and it has that killer lp sound and is flawless in fit and finish. the only thing that could use improvement is the fret job....it's good,just not great...but it's a heck of a lot better than what you will find on cheaper guitars. i would not buy a "fancy" les paul...mine has no binding,no burst...none of that..it is just all of what makes a les paul sound and play well without all the extra crap. i hear alot about gibson quality being poor..but i have never seen or played one that wasn't 100 times nicer than those agiles that people are crowing so much about.i think alot of it has to do with hating the large entrenched companies and wanting to believe that somehow the "underdog" mass producer makes a better product for less. just remember...korean guitars are no longer the lowest of the low end.rather china and indonesia are the newest bastardizers.(for now...everything improves over time to compete) if you want a good,long lasting,playable,and inexpensive guitar...go with the korean manufacturers... esp ltd and schecter are tops,in my book...also look at fernandes..they have an inexpensive lp copy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 bu the way..just so you are aware of it...there are a number of mahogany bodied,set neck guitars with t.o.m bridges and maple caps that you could purchase that ,even though they don't look like an lp..they sound similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 i dont even want a gibson les paul, from what i hear they have some BAD quality control issues, like grain coming through the finsh, unleveled frets, sharp fret edges, just general crappiness. and if you are going to shell out 2 grand you should get a friggin perfect guitar. If that isn't biggest load of BS I've heard in a while, I don't know what is. Buddy, go play some real Les Pauls. Nothing else comes close. Sure, it's going to take a while to find a perfect one for YOU--it took me nine months to find mine this year, but most of the ones I played had minor finish and setup issues. Nothing I couldn't live with until I found mine that really was perfect. It's impossible to have sharp fret edges on a bound fretboard where the frets don't even go all the way to the edge and your "general crappiness" statement makes no sense. There's no difference between those Tokais and an Epiphone. Both use ply bodies now. Here's a tip--find something USED in your area. Don't buy any of this crap on eBay or Musician's Friend. Heck, BUILD a guitar. Buy the bolt-on LP stuff (mahogany body, neck) from Warmoth and you'll be 90% there. Get some cheap GFS pickups and some Gotoh tuners and hardware and you're set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 I was looking at this les paul copy on ebay, SX is the brand, it get great reviews at harmony central and it is made of solod mahogany and has a set neck for about the cost of a squire (worst brand ever) There are nothing wrong with Squiers except for the electronics, but I can't think of a single low priced guitar that doesn't have mediocre electonics. They're at least made of solid wood (only the Bullet is plywood) and my Lace Sensor equipped Squier Affinity Strat is a great player. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 (edited) As noted, most of the new Tokai Love Rocks aren't that great, but the older ones are nice. JSD in Canada has solid mahogany Tokai models with set necks for $459. The Ibanez lawsuit copies are nice too, but those are getting more expensive every month. Doing a search on Ebay, the Tokai Double Cutaways (PRS style) are going for $399, and they're solid Mahogany with set necks. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Edited August 17, 2005 by GodBlessTexas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 well, someone named schecter in this thread and all I can say is that I agree completely. I played one of their model that lists at 450$ (http://www.schecterguitars.com/spec.asp?id=61) and I can say it played great... Anyways... Any mahogany bodied guitar will get you at least *that* close to the sound you want... Even if it has a maple neck (zak wylde) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 i dont even want a gibson les paul, from what i hear they have some BAD quality control issues, like grain coming through the finsh, unleveled frets, sharp fret edges, just general crappiness. and if you are going to shell out 2 grand you should get a friggin perfect guitar. If that isn't biggest load...Nothing else comes close. Sure, it's going to take a while to find a perfect one for YOU--it took me nine months to find mine...It's impossible to have sharp fret edges on a bound fretboard where the frets don't even go all the way to the edge...← I agree with his statement. He may be exaggerating or over generalizing, but the essence of what he's saying (that for $2k you should get perfection-every time) is true. The grain coming through the finish is more a condition of their lacquer than "quality". I don't mind that part, although they definitely don't take enough care with their finishing. I'm sure you'd agree after your 9 month search. Yes, you can have sharp fret ends with binding. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but Gibson has them all the time. The fretboard shrinks back, and then the fret crown sticks out. Otherwise you get a big "scallop" at every fret end. It depends on how short they nip the tangs, and whether the binding hugs the fretboard or lifts away with the fret end. I don't know where you're located, but a lot of Gibson's problems are regional. They aren't using good, dry cuts of wood IMO, so various climates will cause Gibsons to die on the vine. Here in the Chicagoland area Gibsons are throwaways. They get every problem you could get, from fret issues, to neck joint humps, neck twists, etc. So it is possible that we're both right, depending on where you live. No hard feelings. Back on topic, as for the "LP tone from my Strat" it all depends on who you want to fool. You can fool your audience pretty easily with an Alnico II/Custom setup in there. Its the guitarists you won't fool. Everyone here is discussing the nuances. It's true you'll never get a Les Paul "tone" from a Strat, assuming the definition of "tone" is the combination of everything-response, dynamics, EQ curve, etc. But the final product, after its through an amp and to the general listener could be very similar. But the feel and dynamics will still be way off. So a $350-$600 Korean is still your best bet. And some of them already have Duncans, or at least some good stock Alnicos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Oh, I wasn't offended, frank, I just hate it when people just jump on the "Les Pauls are crap" bandwagon when they haven't had the opportunity to appreciate one. It's like saying Corvettes and Vipers are crap because the fiberglass rattles. I do agree, for $2k, they should be perfect in assembly, as should any guitar being offered for sale new at any price. Most of the Lesters I played over the last year had finish bubbles on the top of the guitar at the fingerboard/body joint right at that edge where it's hard to get the buffing wheel in there. That's how I knew how to separate the ones I wanted from the ones to stay away from. Usually the "bubbly" ones were found in either Guitar Center or over at Musician's Friend Clearance Center and they were either too heavy or improper setup. I honestly think the mediocre ones get sent to MF/GC/AMS and that's why people are starting this "Les Paul are crap" thing again. Anyway, yeah, you put humbuckers in a Strat, think Green Day tone. Not quite a Lester, not even a Strat anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 17, 2005 Report Share Posted August 17, 2005 Nitefly, just out of interest, how about posting some details on your Strat? Have you tried experimenting with pickups on it? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Guitar-New-Do...1QQcmdZViewItem that is my guitar, say what you want, but it plays GREAT, after i got this i got rid or my 1990 BC Rich Bich and my washburn delta king (semi hollow) i switched out the humbucker with one from my bich (just out of bordem) but ive been investigating pick ups for a while i dont want to spend 70 dollars on something i *might* like or something that sounds *ok* i want it to be just right. the bc rich P/U has good crunch but gets a little muddy at times whilst playing clean (and distorted for that matter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester700 Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Back on topic, as for the "LP tone from my Strat" it all depends on who you want to fool. You can fool your audience pretty easily with an Alnico II/Custom setup in there. Its the guitarists you won't fool. Everyone here is discussing the nuances. It's true you'll never get a Les Paul "tone" from a Strat, assuming the definition of "tone" is the combination of everything-response, dynamics, EQ curve, etc. But the final product, after its through an amp and to the general listener could be very similar. But the feel and dynamics will still be way off. So a $350-$600 Korean is still your best bet. And some of them already have Duncans, or at least some good stock Alnicos. ← I hadta quote this, because it applies to damn near all of our usual arguments in this goofy niche. Solid state vs. tubes vs. modeling. Real singles vs. split humbuckers. Real '57 strat ('59 Paul, '78 frankenstrat, etc.) vs. reissue. "Who do you want to fool?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhoads369 Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) *reply to this* i guess i was not clear...i will be clearer just so i know you hear me...those guitars(sx,agile) are very poor.i pulled of the fretboard and i foundthe reason it seperated...it is glued on very shoddily by using either epoxy or poly glue(looks like poly),and only is glued in two lines(about 1/8" wide each) on either side of the truss rod...plus there is glue spillage all throught the truss rod channel...that truss rod is incapable of adjustment...plus the fit of the neck into the neck pocket leaves alot to be desired... this just goes along with the review i gave on them months ago.dead spots all over the fretboard(now i know why),bad nut slot filing,horrible finish... i just want you guys to know the truth about them...this is not coming from a bunch of kids on harmony central who are just players,not builders.the construction of these guitars makes them worthless for anything more than a starter guitar...and there are better starter guitars out there. the esp ltds are MUCH better constructed. so there you have it.you can't say you weren't warned.i am sure some people will disagree(they always do),but if they really took one apart and knew the way a guitar was supposed to be,they would agree. buy them if you wish.but don't expect the "gibson and epiphone quality" some are claiming i actually checked out the site and found a Rhoads style guitar that caught my eye, but i am unsure of its quality now. it isn't an agile, its a douglas, but should i expect the same crappyness if i were to buy it do you think? Edited August 19, 2005 by Rhoads369 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 i actually checked out the site and found a Rhoads style guitar that caught my eye, but i am unsure of its quality now. it isn't an agile, its a douglas, but should i expect the same crappyness if i were to buy it do you think? my best educated guess,going on my experience with many,many low end guitars,and with one of these particular "super low end" guitars,is that you will get a general "crappyness" from ANY new guitar in that price range...comparitively speaking. to make it at that price,they have to cut corners somewhere.spend $50 to $100 more bucks,and you can get a "decent" stringed machine from a few of the slightly less low end manufacturers.at least the fretboard will be glued on better. i have a few of the $200 to $300 esps and schecters and such...they are well built,if not exactly "deluxe" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 my guitar is a douglas and its great. every thing is a good fit,the finish is great, its light, i love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenderSurrender Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 its light, i love it So were having this debate getting you an LP Tone... but you already LOVE the guitar you have ~~ Slain Angel ~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted August 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 its differnet sounds people have 20 guitars that doesnt mean they dont love them all i want a certain sound that im told is not obtainable through guitar i have now so i want an LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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