Wanting To Use Minwax Rattlecan Polyurethane

[subject17]

hey everyone, (god i say that alot)

Just wanting to know if the spray polyurethane available from minwax is suitable for guitar work, ( i hear it cures VERY hard ) and i was wanting to know if there is anything i should watchout for when trying to use it. i also read it does not shrink back as much.

Due to the recent issues i have had with my refinishing job. i was thinking that a harder curing substance might be nessasary.

i was also thinking about clear filling the grain ( post stain ) <--- theres the screwup. using minwax sand and sealer.

i've tried doing a search. i even saw a beautiful burst tele that had minwax spray used. and i was wondering how that finish turned out in the long run.

could you professionals out there please advise?

this is the product By the way this is the link http://www.minwax.com/products/protective/fast-poly.cfm

its in an aerosol form though in a bluish black can labeled the same and says gloss

thanks again,

RS

[Daniel Sorbera]

Check this thred out. The first two guitars there were sprayed with it.

I used it on my last build and it turned out great.

here is some pics. (scroll down and look for my post)

Edited August 20, 2005 by Godin SD

[subject17]

thanks! time for some super ing

hey godin i have 2 questions for you.

1) how many cans did that guitar take?

and 2) is there anything special i need to know about spraying it?

ie., time between coats, how long to wait or not to wait, aprox drying times?

anything like that would be most appriciated.

great guitar btw. gorgeous...

thanks again

-RS

Edited August 20, 2005 by subject17

[Daniel Sorbera]

It took me about 2.5 cans for body and neck (I did grain fill the body as best I could. If your wood has open pores in it you will need to grain fill the body first).

Spray it on thin than let it dry for a couple of hours. If you get a run or error let it dry for 24 hours and sand it out. You will never forgive yourself and will just be taking the time to fix your mistakes later (which will take even longer and be harder than doing it in the first place...). Also take your time in the buffing stage and don't stop until it's perfect. I did so many coats I lost count. But it was worth it for the finished product.

If you have anymore questions hopefully somone much better than me at finishing can answer them

If you really take your time and do it right it will turn out like this

Edited August 20, 2005 by Godin SD

[subject17]

thanks for letting me know that.

i have one can now. i'll pick up 2 more tomorrow. i also have a think of minwax sanding sealer. so that might help a little too.

thanks alot.

-RS

[ryanb]

You guys seem to have positive results with this stuff. If it works for you, by all means use it. My experience has not been so positive however. While it is a good product for furniture, I find it to be much too soft (compared to the lacquers and two part urethanes usually used on guitars) to produce good results, and very hard to apply well from the spray cans. These hardware-store polys are very different from the two-part urethanes. I wouldn't even consider using it on a finish I wanted to buff to a high gloss and hold up to abuse. But it could be worse.

[subject17]

to be honest. i've never used rattlecan poly before and i was seeing if it was a viable alternative to nitro because i think guitars that are checked look like crap.

lol (just my 2 cents) not only that the whole ambering issue with nitro is a concern to me. (im not an pond scum green fan at all)(blue guitar) lol i just dont know what is going to dry hard and still work well for a clear coat. i figure worst case scenario.

i start over with nitro....

but this whole thing is pretty new to me still...

any advice on nitro that i might not know would be very good so i can apply it to what i know

thanks

-RS

[westhemann]

You guys seem to have positive results with this stuff.  If it works for you, by all means use it.  My experience has not been so positive however.  While it is a good product for furniture, I find it to be much too soft (compared to the lacquers and two part urethanes usually used on guitars) to produce good results, and very hard to apply well from the spray cans.  These hardware-store polys are very different from the two-part urethanes.  I wouldn't even consider using it on a finish I wanted to buff to a high gloss and hold up to abuse.  But it could be worse.

←

everything you say here is true...i would never suggest that rattlecan poly is anywhere near as good as the 2 part stuff.

it is a fairly soft finish,after all is said and done,and it will wear quickly...but i don't worry so much about that.

one day soon i hope to start shooting paint from a gun...but it would have to be waterbased anyway...i just cannot deal with any more solvent fumes.

i am switching to waterbased for everything...it can still be toxic,but not nearly so much.

[subject17]

now wes when you say soft, do you mean like never hardens right soft or soft as in will take damage faster?

i dont want to use it if it will not cure properly.

thanks

-RS

[westhemann]

of course it cures properly.read what i posted...

[subject17]

im sorry i read it again. i didnt really understand it too much the first time.

as long as the finish looks good and can stand some minor abuse over the years.

i DO take good care of my instruments.

i will try it and if i dont like it so much. next time i'll use nitro.

just to know. with the 1 part poly. do i have to spray all my coats together (20-30 min apart) to have it work like i've read of can i do like 1-2 coats a day (at the beginning anyway) and be ok?

i just want to make sure that i dont screw it up

thanks

-RS

cheers

[westhemann]

the rattlecan nitro is no harder than the poly...all rattlecan finishes are softer than their 2 part counterparts.

the rattlecan poly is tougher than the rattlecan nitro.

[Southpa]

I finished two guitars with poly. I like it better than laquer. It lays down heavier and there is a little less risk of sanding through. The stuff is self levelling, perfect for getting a glass like finish when used on flat guitars laying down on a flat, level surface. The con side is it will sag and "curtain" easier than laquer when shooting a hanging guitar. But it all depends on how you can control your urges, don't get greedy.

One of my guitars is all mahogany. I did not grain fill, its all rattlecan poly. The finish looked like the bartop at your local drinking establishment. Its really thick. But the downside of using too much is the "creep" factor. It continued to settle into the grain months after the guitar was finished. So there is a slight grain texture showing through. Also, poly DOES have a high hardness factor, the down side is that, when fully cured, it will not flex with the movement of the wood underneath. As a result glue joints will show a fine crack after a while. Of course the only way to remedy both problems is to scuff it up and bomb it again a few more times.

If you are going to use Minwax poly, just read the directions, and take your time. 3 coats max. every 20 minutes, then just leave it alone for a week or so, go read a book, .

Edited August 20, 2005 by Southpa

[subject17]

alright so just to see if i understand this correctly.

3 coats to do the guitar?

or 3 coats every 20 minutes until the desired build is reached.

im a total idiot but such subtlties are the root at how these things work

thanks

RS

EDIT: sorry didnt mean to quote the whole post.

Edited August 20, 2005 by subject17

[subject17]

southpa,

what do you think of using sanding sealer to kind of pack the pores a bit to reduce the possible shrinkback?

its more of a protective layer other than an actual pore filler.

might help preserve it.

what do you think?

[Southpa]

3 coats per spraying session. As many sessions as it takes to get the necessary buildup.

Yes you could use sanding sealer to help fill grain but its use is mainly as an undercoat for cellulose laquer (nitro) and to cover the already applied grain filler. If you are going the poly route, then just start shooting.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Southpa

[subject17]

i see, i have sanding sealer that is made to go with this particular brand of poly though.

well i suppose 1 coat wont hurt it. i need some minor things leveled anyway.

this is a refin and not a build.... (that comes next )

if you think i should just start blasting it. i will assemble my makeshift spray booth.

(shed converted into a spray booth with the front door as the opening.

(that took days to get ready lol)

thanks

Cheers.... hmm.... no beer icon... :|

[Doc]

Sanding sealers are made to build base coats. They are softer versions of the top coat, not just something to seal in stain etc. Use sanding sealer,sanding really well between coats untill you have a finish as smooth as you want your final finish, then apply your top coat, be it polyurethane or lacquer. Let the sanding sealer do the heavy lifting.

[subject17]

Sanding sealers are made to build base coats. They are softer versions of the top coat, not just something to seal in stain etc. Use sanding sealer,sanding really well between coats untill you have a finish as smooth as you want your final finish, then apply your top coat, be it polyurethane or lacquer. Let the sanding sealer do the heavy lifting.

←

thanks, i will keep that in mind. im just trying to use it for that purpose you stated.

and take some of the filling responsibility away from the poly ( not all of it )

im just taking my time with this and hopefully... (god willing)

everything will turn out OK on this first time out.

i need to run a poll on the color of hardware i should use for a blue burst though....

not too sure... hmm.....

thanks

[Doc]

I don't think that there is anything that doesn't look good with blue. Look at the stuff posted on the GOTM archives. Lots of really nice virieties of blue axes.

I'm patial to gold but that's just my taste.

[subject17]

i forgot to mention also that my neck and headstock are dyed as well.

how much poly is typically required to do a neck?

common sense tells me that i would want it as thin as i can get it on a neck

thanks!

-RS.

[themortarman]

Curious, how long after the final clear coat before you can start to buff when using this product?

[Southpa]

Give it a fingernail test. Find a spot that will be covered by pickguard, or some sort of cover plate and see how easy it is to make a dent. If its on the hard side and takes a lot of force to make a dent then I would go ahead.

On occasion I've hit pitfalls and brick walls in the finishing area. I'm sure its happened to lots of other people and its one of the most painful lessons to learn. I'm talking about sanding thru during the "in between" stages of shooting clearcoat. With poly I've found that you have to scuff in between shooting sessions to make the next layer stick better. And I say scuff, not sand, especially on corners. Use nothing coarser than 600 grit and just lightly brush over those corners. When you get it built up thick enough you can safely do some sanding, but there are still limits.

Its a real lesson to learn when you touch into that perfect stain job. No going back, strip it down and start over.

how much poly is typically required to do a neck? common sense tells me that i would want it as thin as i can get it on a neck

It doesn't matter all that much, so long as you use enough to avoid sanding thru. The less you use the more careful you have to be. I use just as much as I do on the body, I mean, if I shoot the body 15 times then I will also shoot the neck 15 times. A maple fretboard might get 5 coats and of course, rosewood gets taped over. You can give the neck that slippery feel by going over it with light steel wool afterwards. It might dull the gloss finish but it sure does the trick.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Southpa

[themortarman]

Ok thanks!!

This is a neck I checkrd the area that will fasten to the body and it dents pretty easy looks like it needs to sit longer I'm thinking alot longer.

The reason I asked I was reading one of the turorials and I thought they mentioned they were buffing in 24hrs. I'm sure this was a much different product.

[Sethmetal]

Ok thanks!!

This is a neck I checkrd the area that will fasten to the body and it dents pretty easy looks like it needs to sit longer I'm thinking alot longer.

The reason I asked I was reading one of the turorials and I thought they mentioned they were buffing in 24hrs. I'm sure this was a much different product.

←

Am I the only one that had yellowing with the mini wax spray finish?

Is there a particualr one that remains clear? I loved the hardness and ability to buff, but the yellowing killed it for me. Suggestions?