egdeltar Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I recently got a late 80's Charvel Model 6. It is neck through w/ 24 frets, bound neck and headstock & shark fin inlays w/ HUGE frets and no wear at all. Some one before me installed an after market Schaller trem, Gotoh tuners, and bone nut. I was pretty unhappy with the tone when I first received it. It had a Seymour Duncan hum in the bridge, not sure what model. The sound was pretty "tinny" sounding.. I changed out the bone nut because the string spacing was incorrect, adjusted the truss rod and lowered the action a bit. It was still very tinny sounding. So I changed out the Seymour for one of my favorite hums, a Dimarzio Tone zone. STILL, it sounds like crap.... it has no balls or decent tone. Very "tinny" like a cheap guitar with really crappy pick ups. Ive done everything that I think I could possibly do to it. The action is set-up like a dream, couldn't get any better.. Ive gone over all the wiring and it is fine according to each pick ups manufacturer wire diagrams... I just dont get it! Im starting to think the wood itself is lending it self to sound like crap! Ive never had a problem like this that I couldnt fix...im stumped on this one. Any one have any ideas???? PLEASE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'll take the dud out of your hands I've never heard of anyone who didn't like this. Check that the wiring is correct? Seems like you could have an output problem. Play it unplugged too and see how it resonates naturally. It has a Poplar body but I don't know much about this wood I have a model 4 and it's one of the most resonating, well built guitar I've ever played (though of course it's not like I played that many). Those Charvel model series are amazing bang for the bucks, it'd be sad if you got a dud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 It's the poplar body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 By the way your guitar is either an 87 or an 88. Can't tell with that much info. If on the headstock there is a ® on top of the little guitar headstock, then it's an 88 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Poplar body, maple neck-through, Floyd, tall frets, Tone Zone, need I say more? Try swapping out the tone and volume for 250k or 300k pots and see if that warms things up a bit. Or switch to a darker-sounding pickup like a FRED, PAF Pro, or JB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 JB would definately warm it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Poplar body, maple neck-through, Floyd, tall frets, Tone Zone, need I say more? Try swapping out the tone and volume for 250k or 300k pots and see if that warms things up a bit. Or switch to a darker-sounding pickup like a FRED, PAF Pro, or JB. ← On a model 6 it's not that easy. They had a midboost and the pot values were selected for it. My model 4 is a bolt on, basswood body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, with huge frets and a Floyd too. With the SD Full Shred on it, it sustains forever and the guitar is VERY resonant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 On a model 6 it's not that easy. They had a midboost and the pot values were selected for it. My model 4 is a bolt on, basswood body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, with huge frets and a Floyd too. With the SD Full Shred on it, it sustains forever and the guitar is VERY resonant. ← It could be that the mid-boost hasn't been taken into account with any new wiring that's been done. I'm in agreement about checking the pots values and replacing them with appropriately valued ones if they are incorrect. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Ill just change all the electronics... It orignally had active and some one one took them out so Im guessing they replaced everything with the incorrect pot values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Ill just change all the electronics... It orignally had active and some one one took them out so Im guessing they replaced everything with the incorrect pot values. ← Right on! It does indeed seem like the problems then, good call GodBlessTexas. You're missing out on the midboost, it's a nifty thing How is the guitar unplugged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 (edited) Right on! It does indeed seem like the problems then, good call GodBlessTexas. You're missing out on the midboost, it's a nifty thing How is the guitar unplugged? ← I can't take the credist as Crafty suggested it first, though I do agree. He's probably got some 25k pots in there if there were actives in there previously. It's still probably a good idea to rewire the thing completely just to rule out any other possible wiring issues. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Edited August 24, 2005 by GodBlessTexas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Ill just change all the electronics... It orignally had active and some one one took them out so Im guessing they replaced everything with the incorrect pot values. ← Right on! It does indeed seem like the problems then, good call GodBlessTexas. You're missing out on the midboost, it's a nifty thing How is the guitar unplugged? ← It sounds great unplugged...nice and chunky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Definitely pots then I have a friend who has a model 6 too, with a ToneZone in the bridge and he knows his tone. Should be the pots. You could maybe try and get a midboost on ebay? Jackson JE1200. I have a FullShred in model 4, it works just amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 OK so I got my new pots in on saturday and I changed out the old ones today....and it still does not sound correct to me. Ill explain the entire set-up. Its a HSS, it came with 3 on/off mini toggles. One on each pickup. some later installed a 4th mini toggle as a kill switch. It has 2 tone and 1 volume. The pots I took out are a 500k on volume, a 100k (weird?) on the first tone with a .033 cap and the 2nd tone is a 500k with a .033 cap. I switched them all out to 250k pots. I put a .001 treble bleed cap on the volume and a .05 cap on the 2 tones. I still think it sounds like a tin can! Im stumped! Im thinking about takeing out all the mini toggles and the 2 tone pots and filling the holes w/ dowls. adding a 3 way selector and haveing the middle single just a dummy. so it would just be a 3-way and a volume to the Hum and single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 250k pots won't be too good in the guitar. Especially for a bass heavy humer and 2 stacked SCs. I say you need 500K for all pots, with a .44 or 33 cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I'd say trade it for another guitar. Sounds like this one just doesn't work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I'd say trade it for another guitar. Sounds like this one just doesn't work for you. ← Hahaha....... Thats the easy way out. Im gonna do the 3-way selector and 1 volume. It has too many knobs and switches for me right now, I like it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 That'd be way better. The pickups will be brighter and less 'processed' by the knobs. I still think they're the problems. You could maybe replace one of the miniswitch by a 3 way? This way there's no need to drill for a blade switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I can't believe you guys are talking about pot values when this guitar is clearly a dead fish. You might as well be playing a Steinberger. It's all about the guitar. Everything you're describing about the tone can be attributed to the guitar's construction methods, woods, tremolo, and probably the "sweet low action". Clearly if you had active value pots left over in the guitar (in this case only the 100k tone) that would suck away precious signal. But to switch between 250k pots all the way to 1 meg pots or even NO pots will not "fix" the guitar. I'm not an EMG fan, but that guitar is probably only going to really be usable as an EMG or active Bartolini loaded scorcher. You've got midrange compression and tone loss going on everywhere on that guitar. The Maple neck through will compress and comb away a lot of mids and low mids at the junction itself. The Floyd will inhibit transference of those same frequencies to the body, but even when the sound gets to the "body" there's a big Maple neck running through the core. So once again it's compounded. If I were you, I would basically look at that guitar as a Steinberger and choose your electronics under that premise. I don't own any EMG equipped guitars, and I would love a carved top soloist neck through just for the nostalgia. But if I got one I'd probably dive all the way in and have active Jacksons or EMGs because its a losing battle to try to make it sound like a LP or bolt on Ibanez RG, Fat Strat, etc. You're fighting the guitar every step of the way. It's not bad, it's just a one-trick pony. If it were a Mahogany neck and body it might be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I allready have the 3 way and it fits into one of the holes for the tone pots. Im going to leave the 2 outside holes and fill the middle one and also fill the mini toggle holes. Im pretty sure a dowl will work perfect, if any one has better idea please clue me in. Ill have to refinish the guitar of course but it will be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I can't believe you guys are talking about pot values when this guitar is clearly a dead fish. You might as well be playing a Steinberger. It's all about the guitar. Everything you're describing about the tone can be attributed to the guitar's construction methods, woods, tremolo, and probably the "sweet low action". Clearly if you had active value pots left over in the guitar (in this case only the 100k tone) that would suck away precious signal. But to switch between 250k pots all the way to 1 meg pots or even NO pots will not "fix" the guitar. I'm not an EMG fan, but that guitar is probably only going to really be usable as an EMG or active Bartolini loaded scorcher. You've got midrange compression and tone loss going on everywhere on that guitar. The Maple neck through will compress and comb away a lot of mids and low mids at the junction itself. The Floyd will inhibit transference of those same frequencies to the body, but even when the sound gets to the "body" there's a big Maple neck running through the core. So once again it's compounded. If I were you, I would basically look at that guitar as a Steinberger and choose your electronics under that premise. I don't own any EMG equipped guitars, and I would love a carved top soloist neck through just for the nostalgia. But if I got one I'd probably dive all the way in and have active Jacksons or EMGs because its a losing battle to try to make it sound like a LP or bolt on Ibanez RG, Fat Strat, etc. You're fighting the guitar every step of the way. It's not bad, it's just a one-trick pony. If it were a Mahogany neck and body it might be different. ← Actually.... that has been sitting in the back of my mind and ive been fearing that it is the actual guitar itself that just sounds like poo.... I was really trying to stay away from Active but........... It might come down to it. Thanks for your input. im still going to simplify the electronics bigtime though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pott Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 You said it yourself dude. It sounds great unplugged. How can a guitar sound great unplugged and like crap plugged in? I still say it's the electronics. If it resonates everywhere in the body (check the headstock too) then I say that the right electronics and pickup can change a lot. Try changing the string gauge for something maybe bigger, playing with the pickups' heights etc...that should change it. If not you got a very weird guitar indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Pott..Ive done that all.... Ive had 9's and 11's on it this past week, pickups at all possible heights. Im really starting to think this guitar is a dud in disguise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 You know, you'd be surprised what you can coax out of a guitar like that with an active Bartolini system. If you put a System 112 in there you would probably have a keeper. You'd find playing with the boost knob addicting. Myself I'd prefer an all Mahogany carved top Soloist, Ebony board. Maybe with a Walnut or Koa top and two hums. But I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 A wise man once said,"usually when you try and polish a turd, all you end up with is a shiney turd" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.