crafty Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Sign him up for all the "adult entertainment" catalogs to have mailed to his house on a daily basis. Send him a box of cat poo laced with mothballs. Link to comment
jamesj Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I dont know if he had anything to do with it but I just seen an auction that had Strat spelled Str*t. He seems to be perverting ebay's rules for personal gain. I wonder if you listed a couple thousand dollars worth if ebay would cancell them and lose that commision. Link to comment
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Big D you're a powerseller aren't you? you should try and leverage that with ebay. Link to comment
skibum5545 Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Maybe there's something I'm not clear on-- is it legal in the first place to sell accurate templates of copyrighted body shapes? Moreover, can the big guys like Fender and Gibson even enforce those copyrights on a small scale builder-- realistically, not legally-- at all? If Ron Kirn is abusing the VeRo program to disrupt a perfectly legal business transaction, then sue his ass in Small Claims. If selling body templates isn't legal in the first place, sic Fender or the VeRo program on him. Obviously the guy is a big poopy head (just insert the harsher expletive as you will), but to what point is what he is doing illegal, not just unfair? Link to comment
bigdguitars Posted August 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 I just talked to another ebay who said that Kirn is just a bully pushing around people because he thinks that he can. The other seller said that ron has been kicked off ebay once before, so we need to file as many complaints as we can. I need everyone to list any template that they have and when the auction is cancelled you need to file a complaint against him. heck list the template at 60 bucks, so no one buys it but it makes him cancel the auction. Thanks, Derek Link to comment
GodBlessTexas Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Maybe there's something I'm not clear on-- is it legal in the first place to sell accurate templates of copyrighted body shapes? Moreover, can the big guys like Fender and Gibson even enforce those copyrights on a small scale builder-- realistically, not legally-- at all? You cannot copyright the design of a physical object. You usually get a design patent on it, and they only last for 14 years from the date of issuance. You also cannot patent templates because they are ubiquitous in woodworking. If Ron Kirn is abusing the VeRo program to disrupt a perfectly legal business transaction, then sue his ass in Small Claims. If selling body templates isn't legal in the first place, sic Fender or the VeRo program on him. Selling templates is perfectly legal. The real issue is that the VERO program is so easily abused. There is no way this guy can own rights to anything he claims he does. I also don't think small claims is the way to go in this instance either. It's deceptive trade practices, and could carry stiffer penalties if pursued outside of small claims. Obviously the guy is a big poopy head (just insert the harsher expletive as you will), but to what point is what he is doing illegal, not just unfair? ← Unfair trade practices are not necessarily illegal, but are certainly actionable at the civil level. And I am not a lawyer, but my wife was well on her way to being one before we had kids and she decided to be a full time mom. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Link to comment
crafty Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 You cannot copyright the design of a physical object. You usually get a design patent on it, and they only last for 14 years from the date of issuance. True, but you can also file the basic layout and design as a trademark, and after seven years you're pretty much SOL if you get caught Bogarting someone else's marks. Read up on Gibson v. PRS. He's just blatantly abusing the VERO process by reporting "violations" knowing full well that VERO won't do anything more than just cancel the auctions, and most of his competition don't have access to VERO. BigD, I would suggest that you come up with a snappy name for your custom Varitone switches and file that trademark so you can get VERO rights. This way in the future you can prevent such things from happening again. There is really not much else you can do from a legal standpoint. Yes, you could try to bring an action for damages due to unfair competition, but you'd have to fight him in HIS home state and you'd have to gather more evidence of other incidents, proof that HE did get those auctions canceled, and bring those witnesses in to testify to that evidence. It'd be a big PITA. I would continue to try and seek a resolution through eBay and try to include as many people that have been injured by Mr. Kirn as possible. Oh, and send him a nice box of cat poo, too. Link to comment
jamesj Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Have you busted him out on the tele thread yet? He has not affected me or I would. I dont sell anything guitarish (new word?) I dont actually sell much at all... I am glad I seen this post and didn't buy his templates! You should sign up,(its free) go to his thread about fender busting people, and dog him out....get the word out! Let them know what kinda trash he is! Link to comment
ToneMonkey Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 6 goons in the back of a van....... ........say no more Link to comment
GodBlessTexas Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Have you busted him out on the tele thread yet? He has not affected me or I would. I dont sell anything guitarish (new word?) I dont actually sell much at all... I am glad I seen this post and didn't buy his templates! You should sign up,(its free) go to his thread about fender busting people, and dog him out....get the word out! Let them know what kinda trash he is! ← Just got my account approved. Going to PM Big D to see if there's anything he wants me to say or not say when I post. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Link to comment
jay5 Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 What's the "tele thread"? Link to comment
GodBlessTexas Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 For some reason my account is not working on the tele board. Trying to get it resolved. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Link to comment
jay5 Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ahhh, I think I found it. Here is a thread where a few are already bashing his "instruction booklet". http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?p=17152&highlight=#17152 Link to comment
Gorecki Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ahhh, I think I found it. Here is a thread where a few are already bashing his "instruction booklet". http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?p=17152&highlight=#17152 ← That's interesting, already been in a conflict with Bill Lester over at reranch. "The difference between plagiarizing and researching should be obvious." Using your words... Yes, it "should be obvious". Register this as a complaint. Bill Lester.... Just so people are aware, the not so descreet means of communication here has already hit search engines. So I'd be careful on what's said if it turns into a legal situation. Link to comment
jamesj Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ahhh, I think I found it. Here is a thread where a few are already bashing his "instruction booklet". http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?p=17152&highlight=#17152 ← That's interesting, already been in a conflict with Bill Lester over at reranch. "The difference between plagiarizing and researching should be obvious." Using your words... Yes, it "should be obvious". Register this as a complaint. Bill Lester.... Just so people are aware, the not so descreet means of communication here has already hit search engines. So I'd be careful on what's said if it turns into a legal situation. ← Maybe that will encouarge him to "play fair" or Maybe fender will call him! Link to comment
Gorecki Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Maybe that will encouarge him to "play fair" or Maybe fender will call him! ← You'd hope so but based on what I quoted was over two years old, I doubt it. He's still selling the book and still hacking people off over two years later. For someone like Fender to take legal action would require some considerably larger $$$ to make it worth their while. Otherwise they won't bother. This little guy nipping at the ankles of other little guys is a gross abuse of the system and I expect the guy won't be punished and doesn't have enough $$$ to make lawsuits worth anyones while. Link to comment
Setch Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I think you might also be surprised how little effort and expense is incurred by Fender in dispatching a 'cease and desist' letter, and how many quite small time folks have recieved them. Link to comment
Gorecki Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 I think you might also be surprised how little effort and expense is incurred by Fender in dispatching a 'cease and desist' letter, and how many quite small time folks have recieved them. ← Nope, I'm sure they pass them around like a...well we won't go there. I'm sure they actually get some people to back down with a letter but otherwise it's nothing but a threat and I wouldn't be suprised in the least this guys already been sent a letter or two but ignoring them..because it's likely when told to put up or shut up, Fender won't bother unless it's worth the legal fees, and I doubt they would deem this worthy of the expense. Link to comment
stiggz Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 well im with wez here, he sounds like the the next ed roman. all bluster and bulls**t, big d kick his aEdit (sorry matt ) luke Link to comment
bigdguitars Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 this is a joke he sent me this email I guess he forgot I want to destroy his business now his email: I just thought I'd let you know. . . Please note: my e-mail address is changing the new address is rnkirn@clearwire.net Thanks, Ron Kirn Link to comment
jay5 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I like the little blurb at the end of your template auction about conforming to all VERO standards and what not. When I actually get a minute to put my template up I may just copy it verbatim and add it to mine. Wouldnt that piss him off? He would have to know that you arent the only one who isnt taking his crap and are in contact with other sellers. Can I copy that info into my auction BigD? Link to comment
bigdguitars Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 hell yea! Link to comment
Mickguard Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 (edited) Interesting....the guy's obviously a crock --all that yada-yada What about this auction? Neckplate Fake Serial Number Seems like it'd be easy enough to get that one pulled as fraudulent...he's also selling 'relic'd' neckplates too... That 'custom' telecaster ad is pretty shady too --he keeps calling it a telecaster, implies it's a Fender, shows the 'F' neckplate...but doesn't actually show a headstock...That ought to be pulled also. I've written him asking him to clarify if it's a Fender or not. Edit: I got my response (at least he's prompt): "yep... at least it was before all the modifications..." I promptly reported the auction as misleading if not fraudulent. New edit: I've been exchanging correspondence with this guy. He won't let up. Keeps telling me that Keith Richards changed out all of the parts on his tele, and so did Springsteen. Then he goes into a rant about how Fender used to laminate their bodies and call them solid anyway. I keep explaining to him to him that I'm talking about his own little scams and that I think he ought to stop. Funny guy, definitely unstable. Certainly stoppable. Edited September 5, 2005 by idch Link to comment
Mickguard Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Okay, the more I hear from this guy, the more he's pissing me off...and you don't want to piss me off... I'm a pitbull who doesn't feel like working today... Check out this photo from the 'custom telecaster' ad: Here's the ad again Here's the link to report the fraud Seems pretty clear that there's a Fender logo on there...hard to see, but that's what it looks like. But he's been pretty clear in the ad that the neck is NOT Fender... I've already reported the ad as possibly fraudulent. Perhaps if a bunch of other people do the same, we can get this guy shut down. He's an obvious thief, there's no doubt in my mind. I've also written to Ken Warmoth to find out if those necks are indeed Warmoth necks. Can't find an email contact for Fender to write to them about it (he claims he's run his ads by Fender's legal department, but I'm sure that's another crock o' bull). Okay, okay, I'll get to work now... Link to comment
westhemann Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 http://images.andale.com/f2/107/127/199879...488_Image1a.jpg very unusual to make a body from this part of the tree.i don't think i like it.i have seen wood seperate right at that point where the strap button on that guitar is... Link to comment
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