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Who Is Ron Kirn?

bigdguitars

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jay5 Mentor

jay5

Posted
Posted
He obviously has enough pull at eBay to get your auctions cancelled and username suspended

Thats the thing, he has no more pull than anyone else could have. Big D is right, the VERO program is a huge flaw in the company and its unregulation opens it up to abuse, as in this case.

D, a bit of advice here. Simply bashing Kirn anywhere you can will get you no where. If anything, you are gonna piss him off more. You really need to explore legal routes here if you are serious about taking him down. Hav a lawyer send a letter to both him AND ebay regarding your account suspension (although, you did call him out in an auction, which may have screwed you up). Also, contact the guy from guitarbuildingtemplates.com and see what he has to say about this, I bet you he has dealt with this guy too. Dont just go around slining mud, it isnt going to help your case at all.

P.S- I did (it isnt gonna hurt me to rip on him :D )post a reply to that thread as I have had a similar experience as Ive said. I doubt he will respond but who knows. Again, keep us in the loop on your progress.

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Jehle Veteran

Jehle

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Posted
Also, contact the guy from guitarbuildingtemplates.com and see what he has to say about this, I bet you he has dealt with this guy too. Dont just go around slining mud, it isnt going to help your case at all.

An excellent suggestion.

D, look, I know you are angry. Rightfully so. But now is the time for action, not emotion. Put the anger aside, and use that energy to take action.

Fill out the paperwork for Vero.

Use that to cancel his auctions becuase he has no exclusive rights to "Telecaster" or templates thereof.

Contact guitarbuildingtemplates through email and stick to the facts. Ask them about their experience.

And USE SPELL CHECK!

I know it feels good to lash out when you're angry. Just keep it here in the family. This is business at this point. Slinging mud isn't the way to promote or save your business. Bitch all you want here and only here. Call me an a**hole, not Kirn. I'm trying to help you here because I had to go through this with "betterbytes"

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bluespresence Mentor

bluespresence

Posted
Posted

+1 to Jehle's advice. I stayed out of this thread for a long time because it was emotional but now it's serious. I can empathize with your situation because my biz is also on eBay and it would hurt bad to get a suspension. Do this right and let's keep it documented so the next time it happens to someone they have a "manual" to work with.

PM me if you need any help with research or anything else. I'm here all day and I'll do what I can to help get you up and running again. The first thing to do is get another username up. It sounds like you may have done that and it's important to keep the cash flow going.

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mledbetter Experienced

mledbetter

Posted
Posted

well in fairness.. who do you fight? if it's a mess that ebay made, the logic would be to use ebay to correct it but they are a moving target and you can't talk to a human..

so the other option is to roll up your sleeves and jump in the gutter with Kirn.. pull some of his auctions and make his life miserable. It appears that anyone can do it so just use a new acct.. and with the first one sene d him an email telling him to lay the hell off or you'll pull as many of his auctions as you need to to make your point.

He keeps copy in his auctions saying that he started the whole template craze 8 years ago when he duped some classic tele body.. so that's probably to cover his own ass, claiming IP rights to the template concept. weak and lame, but ebay doesn't think through the claims, so he probably never gets questioned.

count how many auctions you've had pulled to get your acct suspended. I can guarantee Kirn doesn't want his acct suspended and if you yank a certain number of his auctions, he'll get an automatic suspension as well.

Stick it to him. He's not ethical, ebay is asleep at the wheel, and any letter from an attorney will take weeks to get to the proper individual. I think you could nip it in the bud real quick.

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Mattia Grand Master

Mattia

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Posted

This is getting friggin' ridiculous. I just replied, and hopefully he'll answer. If he's claiming he invented the guitar template (how long have pin routers been around and in use in factories again? 'cause I'd like to know...), well, I don't know if I'll be anything but flabbergasted. And his claim you can't use a concept others have created is, quite frankly, ludicrous. We're talking about a functional use identical to every other type of template routing in the world, applied to a specific shape. Madness!

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jmrentis Veteran

jmrentis

Posted
Posted (edited)

Nice Mattia! Thats a good post, and I know it will be followed by" I don't have to explain myself" type response in which case I will buy a plane ticket, rent a car and drive over there and light his whole operation on fire, then laugh at him and sell melted pieces of his crap on ebay for $10k a piece using his name. :D

Anyways you pointed out some very good holes in his operation, it is most obviously a bully thing he is doing, he has nothing to back him up otherwise he would have pulled that card already, he bluffing and now it is time for bigd and others to lay out there hands and get some legal action and or contest issues with vero/ebay, no matter how long it takes.

Ohh yeah since kirn is going to trademark the template, I decided I will trademark oxygen! :D So now you all will have to pay me rights to breath, I'll be nice enough to let you, but you must pay me. I invented oxygen, and it's my idea. Pay up!

This is getting friggin' ridiculous. I just replied, and hopefully he'll answer. If he's claiming he invented the guitar template (how long have pin routers been around and in use in factories again? 'cause I'd like to know...), well, I don't know if I'll be anything but flabbergasted. And his claim you can't use a concept others have created is, quite frankly, ludicrous. We're talking about a functional use identical to every other type of template routing in the world, applied to a specific shape. Madness!
Edited by jmrentis
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westhemann Grand Master

westhemann

Posted
Posted
Derek, did you EVER purchase a tele template from Ron Kirn???

it seems as if kirn is claiming derek bought a template from him and used it as a "master" to create others to compete with him in the same market.

if that IS the case...then i can see why kirn wants to cancel derek out.i would be irritated as well

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Mattia Grand Master

Mattia

Posted
Posted

My main problem with Ron Kirn's statements is that they're terribly ambiguous. If he simply said 'Derek's bought a Tele template from me, and is now selling Tele templates', that's one thing. All he's said, though, is that Derek's 'stolen a concept'. Given the fact Derek's mentioned several other people's templates getting pulled, I suspect there's a bit more to it than that.

But yeah, Derek, be good to know if he's got any reason to think you've copied one of his templates directly. What, if anything, have you bought from him in the past?

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Mattia Grand Master

Mattia

Posted
Posted (edited)
I did buy a template from him.  The thing is the template I was selling was 100% different Different material, and a different size.  Mine was based off a thinline tele.  His was just a regular tele.

Ah, right. See, he's making the claim (in some of his auctions) that others (I'm guessing you, maybe some of the other template sellers) have bought his templates, and therefor must have copied them, used them to create your own templates. Materials are irellevant here, but shape isn't (to a point).

While it's not an unreasonable assumption on his part to think you 'simply' copied those specific templates and are re-selling them, that's certainly not enough evidence (I would think) to prove anything. Did you state, explicitly, that you made the templates from a thinline Telecaster you owned? You didn't use his templates as a basis for yours, did you?

I'd think the burden of proof is on him to prove that you copied his templates exactly to make yours, or 'modified' them to make your own. It does weaken your position, but I do feel Kirn's in the wrong when cancelling auctions based on some very shaky evidence. Anyone can make a Telecaster template. He didn't invent templates, he certainly wasn't the first person in the world to use them in guitar making. Maybe the first to offer them on ebay, but what's that prove?

Edited by mattia
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