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I decided I will trademark oxygen!  :D  So now you all will have to pay me rights to breath, I'll be nice enough to let you, but you must pay me.  I invented oxygen, and it's my idea.  Pay up!

You laugh...drug companies are being awarded patents on plant and animal genes almost daily. Not patents on specific drugs or specific proteins, or even specific applications of parts of the genome. THE ACTUAL GENES!

Back to the topic...Derek, I hope you nail this guy big-time.

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I'd think the burden of proof is on him to prove that you copied his templates exactly to make yours, or 'modified' them to make your own. It does weaken your position, but I do feel Kirn's in the wrong when cancelling auctions based on some very shaky evidence
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i agree.i just want all of the relevant information before forming an opinion.

if D had said at the start that he purchased a template from kirn in the past,i could have guessed PAGES ago that was what kirn's concern was.

it is still i think wrong ofkirn to do what he has done,but how can i come down on D's side(even in my own thoughts) if i feel like i am not being presented with ALL of the honest facts.so far this topic has been extremely one sided.i never see where kirn expressed his views in emailsd...all i see is a post from derek saying something like "he emailed me back and he is a complete slimeball."

at the moment i feel like i can't trust the info in this thread,because part of the story was already hidden

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Granted, the fact that D did buy a template from Kirn in the past could hurt him slightly, but I never bought one from him so that gives him no right to cancel my auction. Likewise, he has no right to cancel anyone elses auctions either.

D, it has been said before, you can't keep going the Jr. Highschool route and ask that he be banned just because you have a gripe with him. I agree with you 100% on the issue but calling him out in your auctions (which is a bad idea, regardless of what I thought previously) and then complaining to the website guy just makes you look stupid. Like Dark said a while back, if you really want to take him down, you have to go the legal rout and stop the name calling and childish complaining.

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its not Like a fleet of lawyers are going to sweep him off to never never land.

this is a lawsuit with other parties involved regardless of myself. It takes time.

Even if I directly copied his work, which I did not do, how would he own IP on the shape of a tele guitar?

things will come, will post when there is more info. still waiting for news on my ebay appeal.

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I'd think the burden of proof is on him to prove that you copied his templates exactly to make yours, or 'modified' them to make your own. It does weaken your position, but I do feel Kirn's in the wrong when cancelling auctions based on some very shaky evidence
.

i agree.i just want all of the relevant information before forming an opinion.

if D had said at the start that he purchased a template from kirn in the past,i could have guessed PAGES ago that was what kirn's concern was.

it is still i think wrong ofkirn to do what he has done,but how can i come down on D's side(even in my own thoughts) if i feel like i am not being presented with ALL of the honest facts.so far this topic has been extremely one sided.i never see where kirn expressed his views in emailsd...all i see is a post from derek saying something like "he emailed me back and he is a complete slimeball."

at the moment i feel like i can't trust the info in this thread,because part of the story was already hidden

THANK YOU.

I asked if D had bought a Kirn template a couple pages back and didn't get an answer. That's fine. Kirn's a jerk (IMO), and he deserves what he gets. BUT -- this is not the place to settle legal disputes, and it's definitely not the place to slam other people. I'd prefer that any more info on this topic be limited to facts and not opinion. The flaming has to stop, if not for the good of PG, then for the good of humanity and my fargin' sanity. :D

Derek, get your lawyer on this and get it resolved. Yesterday.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm kinda late to this party, but I thought I'd add my .02 worth. I have placed 3 different templates on ebay several months ago (july or so) that were pulled under the VERO program by Kirn consulting.

I did not think much of it at the time as I thought it was because templates were considered copyrighted. But here's where it doesn't make sense. The three templates I had up for auction were a Musiclander, SG, and an explorer style one all out of plywood.

After reading through this thread, It seems Kirn thinks that he invented templates on the whole. I didn't place any more ads under ebay back in July because I didnt wanna risk losing any more money than I already had.

Also,Another Counterfeit

Oh, and by the way, I claimed this on ebay under the Replica, Counterfeit Items and Unauthorized Copies section.

The Fender Logo is all too easy to see on this one.

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This subject is rather old and everyone has an opinion on it. I did some stupid things but should have gotten a lawyer first.

Though even with a lawyer I did not have the cash to do what I wanted to do. As a small business I would rather take the couple grand and invest it in new tools rather than prove a point. The system is not fair but thats life. Its very easy to claim something as your own, so till someone has more money and energy than me I will not purse this futher.

Not much more to say on this topic...

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I believe there is another member from this site that had a similar issue with their name and it becoming sullied(sp). THey were selling and doing well and had to drop the name and start all over from the beginning and when your selling guitars that is never an easy task, I think the only reason it worked was because he built amazing stuff and noone can deny quality worksmanship, so he now is doing well again, so it can be done. ALso thats one reason I would avoid ever using my real name in a company, just like the guy who names that sounds like itch and start with an L, your name with forever be associated with that specific issue or problem, even if it's not true that stuff can follow you. Perry did a great job explaining that stuff when Metal Matt was first starting out, you gotta be careful and know exactly what you are doing and what you will be doing because a small mistake now can be a disaster later. Well anyways good luck BigD, I hope you get things back to where you had them, I think it sucks that this guy can pull this crap and get away with it. I would make another account aside from your new one and find out what he sells most and claim ownership on it and get vero to pull all his auctions of them. So he know what he is doing to everyone. I find it amazing that this sort of stuff is so hard to handle, I would figure if he is doing fraud that he would be immediately booted and fined for committing fraud, I guess ebay just sucks like that, no customer service and Fraud Friendly. A good way to make money if your a hustler, I think I will claim ownership on accoustic sets, I invented them if you guys didn't know and now I will take over internet sales of accoustic sets, woohahaha!

Edited by jmrentis
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