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Drak hit the nail right on the head. I haven't paid too much attention to this thread in the past few days, but I would remove any mention of Ron Kirn from your auctions. He obviously knows the VERO system well enough to abuse it and he knows eBay will do nothing about it.

I'd simply keep re-listing as long as he keeps having them removed. Also, I'd keep on this issue with eBay until it gets resolved. Get someone there on the actual telephone and insist on action. They've made plenty of money with you on your eBay Store and you've got almost 100% positive feedback on every auction. If they don't settle this, then I'd see about selling some other way than eBay.

You could sue Kirn for unfair competition, but as I said before and Drak pretty much summed up, it's going to cost you more money and time than you'll ever make on those templates. Take your time with eBay, be patient, and keep posting those template auctions as fast as Kirn gets 'em pulled.

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yea this is all stupid.

the fustrating thing is that anyone who lists a tele template it will get cancelled. All the other template seller I have talked to hate him too.

I have talked to a lawyer and by calling him out in my auctions it shows that he is actually reading them and its not something that is done by a computer.

Its got too much emotion in this and this is the last wording pattern that I can use. If this is cancelled then the lawyer is going to send a letter asking for legal documentation.

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I have talked to a lawyer and by calling him out in my auctions it shows that he is actually reading them and its not something that is done by a computer. 

There's search options that he could be using to find your auctions. If he's getting Tele template auctions canceled unilaterally, he's probably searching on that.

Could you sell a generic "electric guitar template" instead? Is he so hell bent on you as a seller that he would cancel a generic auction like that where any registered name like Tele, Strat, or whatever is NEVER mentioned?

I'd play around with the wording to find one that sticks.

read my legal disclaimer:


I call him out.  I bet this will be cancelled in 3-4 days.

Well, it's still up at the moment, for what it's worth. I think you need to get rid of the angry sounding disclaimer. It sends the wrong message.

In the interest of helping you here, I wouldn't buy that template for two reasons. First, the description is not well written, there's misspelled words, typos, etc... Second, that disclaimer is the best written part of the whole auction and it's filled with venom.

I had similar anger and rage against Kench Byers when he ripped off me, projectguitar, and fishbake. It took me a long time to deal with that.

I think you need to rewrite your description to be generic, as you've done in the auction you linked to. But, loose the anger. Stick to the product. For example:

"You are bidding on a 1/2 MDF electric guitar template.  The shape and design is based on several classic instruments that date back to the 1950's.  You can use different pickup configurations, add an F-Hole for a semi-hollow body, or even modify this template to create your very own special combination of features.

Use the Buy it Now option and shipping is free!

I've been a power seller for 5 years for a reason.  If you have any questions about my templates, please contact me.

Disclaimer: buyer should contact me within 10 days after auction completion to inform me of method of payment. Shipping and handling is not negotiable. Shipping rates are based prices established by the USPS for parcel post. This template, in no way, is intended as a replacement or copy of instruments that are protected under registered trademark."

Something like that. Anyone else is free to modify that as needed. Surely we can all write something that will keep you in business.

<edit used code blocks to set out the auction rewrite.>

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The auction is still up and running.  No bidders, but at least it's not cancelled.

Any other updates?

I just checked and it was cancelled sometime between now and then. :/

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

No way! :D

I've done a few searches for guitar templates on there and I've found several others. From the looks of it, these are complete guitar templates for the following instruments...


Mosrite (click for example listing)

Contemporary Bass

Jazz Bass

P Bass



"Cloud" (Prince guitar)

58 Explorer



58 Flying V

Now... with all of those different guitar templates, surely there can be a "Contemporary Electric Guitar" template made? :D

Or you could make a "Broadcaster" template. B)

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You know what? Those templates are all from the guy at guitarbuildingtemplates.com. I bet you he has had to deal with this crap before. The thing is, that is his business so I imagine he at least threatened the legal rout. The thing is, he never has tele or strat templates up on ebay. THose are the two that Kirn sells, So I dont know. It might be worth contacting him just to see what the deal is.

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I keep coming back to the Broadcaster template idea. Even Fender couldn't use that name because it was owned by someone else. Even Mr. Kirn can't own that.

There's also a clear possibility that Kirn is just out to get you and has you on his permanant target list. Try selling under another user name.

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I will create a new account. I have appealed the suspension. This is a hole in ebay that needs to be fixed. I have some corporate buddies who know some ebay insiders, so this will get taken care of one way or another.

updates in the nect couple days.

oh yea another problem with ebay, THERE is no phone support even if you are a powerseller. goofy stuff man.

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I think you should consider your options very carefully at this point. He obviously has enough pull at eBay to get your auctions cancelled and username suspended. You have Varitone switches and other inventory you need to sell. If you want to stay in business, you're either going to have to fight him on his terms or look for another way to succeed.

I would abandon eBay at this point and set up your own merchant website using PayPal as the payment system. Yes, I know PP is owned by eBay, but as long as it's listed on your own website there's nothing RK can do but sue you directly, and I don't think he has the sack to do that. Plus PP does have stellar customer support and is easy to implement on your own site.

I just typed "custom varitone switches" into Google and your home page was the first thing that came up. I bet if you built your own merchant site you would do 2-3 times the biz you were doing on fleabay.

EDIT: You know, I just took another look at your website and you're on the right track already! Why not just improve the usability a little and add some more pics to show people what they're getting?

Edited by crafty
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I'd just VeRo this guy. I have read all of Ebay's VeRo information and all you have to do to join is go through the process once via fax. All of the policies state that Ebay attempts to ensure it is not misused and they investigate if it seems abusive but all that is assuming that anyone is actually monitoring the VeRo cases. in some other forums some folks said private lawsuits are the only way to get the person with the complaint to stop.

Sounds like they put the process in motion and intended for it to be a self-monitoring system. I'd fight fire with fire and pull an auction or two of his. You know good and well he doesn't have any IP rights to "tele templates" You could do that or take him to small claims court as a more of a nuisance to him to let him know that you will make his life miserable if he keeps it up.

It sounds like the suspension thing is an automatic consequence if you have x number of auctions in violation of the VeRo member's rights. So he just kept reporting them and the system flagged you for a suspension.

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