Hurricane Katrina

[bigdguitars]

duh, I should have look at that.

thanks.

18 making that guitar unreal... I wish I would have known that.

[thegarehanman]

Thanks. I'm ok with losing to Phil. It's a nice bass. I got the votes from the people I respect; so I'm happy. I've been building all sorts of things for a long time. Metal sculptures, wood and metal furniture, you name it. I've also done tons of home repairs and additions. That will be usefull experience when I'm repairing(or rebuilding ) my home(s).

[bigdguitars]

if you were closer to me I would say here you go, and open my shop. Unreal skills for your age, you got it. Keep at it once you can, good luck

-derek

[thegarehanman]

Thanks, hopefully some of my tools are ok. My dad is as much of a tool fanatic as I am. So if they're destroyed, I could probably convince him to buy even better ones than we had. Can anyone say resaw bandsaw?

[jamesj]

garehanman

If your here MSNBC is in your town NOW!!! Live 10:54 pm est

[jamesj]

A couple people there, They Interveiwed, Jeff Carr, Mike Burns, Joy Crucia, Mike Durand. and another female,I didnt get here name. The Place looks ruff...Man I feel for you. alot of work to be done.

[crafty]

Here is the richest and most powerful nation in the world..... and somehow it all doesn't look very solid and professional. I wouldn't dare to say I see a trend here....but I do remember recent clumbsy shuttle launches........and these briljantly thought-out war efforts........

At first I wasn't going to respond to this, but after watching the news, it's just a little under my skin.

First of all, RGGR, the Homeland Security budget is not used for the war in Iraq. So you can take what the BBC and whatever other crappy Euro news agency has told you and throw it out. The levies in New Orleans did not collapse because of the War on Terror, they collapsed and the city flooded because of piss poor management and design from the beginning.

Second, I'd like to see how well the supposedly superior dike system in the Netherlands would survive a Cat 4-5 hurricane spawning a hundred tornados on land and torrential rain like Europe has never seen.

Third, like the President said this morning, it takes more than 24 hours to mobilize disaster aid on this level. The Navy has dispatched the USNS Comfort and the USS Iwo Jima to the Port of New Orleans with the USS John F. Kennedy as a backup/support group. That's a hospital ship, an amphibious assault ship, and a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier group. They're not supersonic and take a few days to get there from Hawaii and Virginia.

Fourth, no matter how long it takes the National Guard troops from other states to arrive, the units based in Louisiana and Mississippi were activated before the storm and the Coast Guard has been on-scene managing helecopter rescues ever since the storm cleared, and some before.

Finally, I've seen nothing but the most professional conduct by the rescuers who are risking their lives to save these people trapped in New Orleans. To compare their conduct to the Challenger and Columbia shuttle tragedies is a low blow and insulting to their professional conduct. Also, in case you didn't notice, we won the war with Iraq, twice in fact, so I fail to see how your comparison as a failure works.

[thegarehanman]

You know crafty, I'm with you. However, I think I can sum up all of what you're getting at in a few sentences.

"Peoples' damned houses were completely annihilated by this storm and pointing out any flaw you might think America, the New Orleans levee system, or the disaster relief crews may have accomplishes absolutely nothing. You want to make a difference? Donate some money to those poor people in New Orleans. Even better, go help them yourself."

My house may be destroyed, but I'm still in much better shape than any one of those people that are still in New Orleans or in one of the hundreds of shelters, and for that, I am truly thankful. I am a religious man, and I thank God that he was so merciful to me. I can't guarantee I'd be a sane man if I were in the shoes of any of the real refugees.

[GREGMW]

To the people in Louisiana (and surrounds)

The pictures we are getting down here in Australia are devastating.

The force of nature is frightening.

We hope you guys over there are all ok .Our heart and thoughts are all with you.

Take care.

Greg

[sepultura999]

Personally I don't think even the best dike/levy system could have prevented this.

I don't know about that. There have been dams built to block water in the world that are much stronger than those levy systems. I don't know what those levys are made of but from the looks of it, its almost like giant cement walls. If that's true, you're not going to stop a surge of water at rapid speeds. The Netherlands had a lot of rain a few years ago and they're still trying to get the dyke system correct. If a hurricane hit them, they'd be toast. The Netherlands are also at sea level last I checked, whereas New Orleans is below sea level sitting in a bowl, which I am sure causes more problems.

To compare their conduct to the Challenger and Columbia shuttle tragedies is a low blow and insulting to their professional conduct.

Agreed. It's not even comparible. The "clumbsyness" was a mechanical error which tends to happen when dealing with still a new technology. What did you want to see, Superman or Mighty Mouse to save the day as it was falling? How do you want the government to act when they cannot prevent an explosion in mid-air? Even if you build a guitar carefully, taking your time, making sure you follow everything correctly, there is still a chance, a small percentage that you may make a mistake and don't notice it until you're playing it one day. How prepared do you want things to be? It's not easy ordering thousands of people around when they have no money, home, food, water, or medicine and expecting them to listen. The one thing I am pissed off about is that a hurricane this devistating has been forseen for the last few years, and if they chose to believe it, the technology which many of us rely on, then maybe, just maybe they could've had a few years to increase the size and stability of the levys. Then again, I am just talking theory.

-Jamie

Edited September 2, 2005 by sepultura999

[RGGR]

The Netherlands had a lot of rain a few years ago and they're still trying to get the dyke system correct. If a hurricane hit them, they'd be toast. The Netherlands are also at sea level last I checked, whereas New Orleans is below sea level sitting in a bowl, which I am sure causes more problems.

The Dutch dike systems is not a done deal. It needs constant attention. With rising sea levels, and climate change creating bigger down poor.......it's a system that needs attention. 60% of Holland is below sea level. We have big inner lake and 5 big rivers flow through our country.......we are surrounded by water so to say.

Very similar to situation in New Orleans. Only difference is that we aren't exposed to cat. 4-5 Hurricanes. And yes, even the best bike/levee system will take serious blow when one of these storms hit. Holland would have been in serious trouble.

And please don't get me wrong.......seeing the videos, seeing the devastation done. Seeing poor people loosing everything they have (even loved ones). That gets me too.

But having said that...the blame game will start, and everybody will have their own twist to the story.

Hopefully some good will come out of this.

[johnsilver]

←

[Mattia]

What RGGR said about NL; we've got a history of floods, and one of the more advance dike systems in the world, but it's not equipped for anything near Katrina's violence. Thankfully, for now at least, this part of the world doesn't get storms like that. This said, New Orelan's lacking levy system has been on the agenda for a long, long, long time and wasn't even remotely up to scratch.

Besides the horrific human aspect to the whole catastrophe, the thing that strikes me most is the appalling lack of leadership on the part of Bush (and, well, that whole Pat Robertson/FEMA fiasco). The quotes re: 'its the war on Iraq's fault!' are coming just as much from US sources, not 'some Euro newsagency' (almost all of which, frankly, overall have better reporting than any US televised news service). And honestly, when you have additional funds given to any agency (Homeland Security, the military, whatever), cuts are going to be made elsewhere. Probably everywhere. It is, of course, rather naive to blame a single policy decision for any lack of funding in any other situation, though. People from both sides of the political spectrum are ripping Bush a new one in their editorial columns for his lack of strong leadership, though. I suspect Clinton or even Bush Sr. would've been much more decisive (better, frankly; his last few speeches, his slowness to react in any meaningful, helpful manner has been downright dreadful. Even for a man with precious little charisma or oratory skills to begin with...). I felt Bush's response to the last big crisis was decidedly lacking, and this one is similar.

I have nothing but positive things to say about the people on the ground trying to help things out, and blaming any one party in this is naive, but ultimately, NO's levies have long been known to be not up to the task, this administration did neglect to send money to build them up, and now they're getting slammed for it, because Katrina hit. If this had happened during another administration, they'd get slammed for it, because it's not just this administration that's neglected to do anything about the levies. They all bet on nothing like this happening, and this administration lost that bet, bigtime, and is being called on it.

I just hope people can be saved, moved to safety, given shelter, food, clean water and medical attention, and that one of America's cultural capitals can be rebuilt, and hopefully in such a way as to minimize damage from another such catastrophic storm. Because there will, some day, be more of them.

[crafty]

Mattia, you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. You're just another European bashing Bush for the world's problems because it's the easy and fun thing to do. In case you didn't notice or the BBC didn't tell you, he's actually headed down to the disaster area right NOW and has requested 10.5 billion dollars in disaster aid from our Congress.

Like I said before, the National Guard, Coast Guard, and Red Cross were all activated BEFORE the hurricane even arrived. The failure to move 40,000 people in three days is not anyone's fault but the broken levee's and the people who couldn't or wouldn't get out.

Like thegarehanman said, focus on helping the people now, not blaming the leadership for not being Superman.

[bigdguitars]

I think the politics have taken over here. lets play the blame game somewhere else. just donate what you can, and keep everyone in your thoughts. Now that you know someone has pretty much lost everything lets do what we can to help.

Politics and religion are not part of this forum.

[westhemann]

Politics and religion are not part of this forum.

i would even go one step further and say that discussing these things NEVER resolves any issues,on this forum or elsewhere...people still believe what they believe,and everyone thinks they are the only ones who are smart enough to know what the truth is,so all you are doing by getting in these debates is showing that you enjoy futile grandstanding.

so anyway...what derek said.no political or religious debates on this forum

[Mattia]

Mattia, you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. You're just another European bashing Bush for the world's problems because it's the easy and fun thing to do. In case you didn't notice or the BBC didn't tell you, he's actually headed down to the disaster area right NOW and has requested 10.5 billion dollars in disaster aid from our Congress.

Dude, please don't pretend to tell me what I do and don't understand. For the record, my characterization of US televised news services is based on personal experience and the opinons of several of my American, living-in-the-US friends. I like my news from several services and nations. I'm not accusing anyone of gross incompetence, or laying the blame for this disaster squarely on Bush's shoulders, and if that's what you read into what I wrote, I apologise for my lack of clarity.

BigD's right, though; politics and religion have no place here, and I'm sorry I went off on that tangent. I hope you, and anyone else I may have offended will accept my apologies for that. Shutting up about politics now.

The people who needed to do things were, and are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities, and I never said they weren't. Money's being freed up, and that's a good thing, and I'm aware of it. I have nothing but praise for everyone who's risen to the occasion, for the men and women helping in any way they can, and that's the important thing.

Better levies *might* have helped, having better evacuation plans in place *might* have helped, but all of that is totally irellevant right now, as you rightly point out. It's about helping the people on the ground, and in the longer term, focus on rebuilding all that was lost, and hopefully putting systems in place to prevent a catastrophe on this scale from happening again, as far it's possible. Let's all remember that the aid is sorely needed *right now*, and will continue to be necessary for a long, long time to come. Let's all keep all those who died in our hearts and minds, but more importantly remember that thousands out there still need help, and will continue needing help.

Edited September 2, 2005 by mattia

[bigdguitars]

All I know is that they need busses and lots of them.

I can't understand why every metro district in the south has not sent every bus to move these people. All you need is some army gas trucks, and a ton of busses.

once they get out of that area, they can begin to go house by house. I have heard they are starting to put black x's on roofs of homes where people have passed. its so unreal, I wish there was more I could do....

[marksound]

It doesn't matter how high or thick or deep or invulnerable we build something, somewhere, sometime, somehow it will not be enough. We do the best we can, but no matter how advanced science is, we just can not anticipate the destructive power of nature.

"History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men." Or something like that.

[mledbetter]

communication seems to be the biggest problem. The folks that can and are willing to help don't know where the help is needed.. e.g. the convention center - the national guard said they never even knew of the people there until yesterday.

I think the people that had money and means to leave left like they were supposed to and a lot of what you have left are the poor. which only adds to the problem because the longer things are bad the more folks will feel like they are being forgotten because of their race or economic stature.

was just reading that a lot of police are fleeing, turning in their badges, etc.. the place needs to be under martial law and peace restored and that will require a strong military presence. The police are outgunned and are helpless to do much of anything.

I think when all this is said and done, the blame game will start politically. The politics certainly doesn't solve any problems now. To those who do consider themselves religious (i can't stand that word) i would say pray - and then act.. now isn't the time to evangelize. Whatever faith or lack of faith you are, we have a responsibility to help each other out.

[Gorecki]

the place needs to be under martial law and peace restored and that will require a strong military presence.

←

That is part of the problem itself, there is no martial law in Louisiana! They are the legal anomaly in the US, they still practice something more relative to French law.

The good news is it appears the troops have arrived.

[TenderSurrender]

Sorry to break up convo here but i have a question...

Im getting conflicting reports over here in the UK and im wondering, has Alabama been effected at all?

I have a few relatives out there and just started to worry about them since i know its not amazingly far away from Orleans...

Thanks guys

~~ Slain Angel ~~

[johnsilver]

Gorecki is right, Louisiana law is derived from the French Napoleonic Code and not English Common Law as are the other 49 states. I don't know if there is a martial law provision or not under Louisiana state law.

Alabama was affected, but the press coverage hasn't been as prevalent as for Mississippi and Louisiana. I know the storm surge in Mobile was very high and caused damage and flooding. An offshore oil drilling rig broke loose from its mooring and crashed into a bridge and stuck. I don't know the damage. My niece lives in Jackson, Al just a bit north of Mobile and she came through ok although there was tree damage, etc. My sister lives in Birmingham, Al, which is quite a bit north of the coast, and she told me the storm was still a Cat 1 when it came through there. I haven't heard of any loss of life in Alabama. Surely there is some coverage on the net somewhere.

[TenderSurrender]

The problem ive found is that (quite rightly) the majority of the news coverage is on Orleans etc

The general idea seems to be that its just power outages etc in Alabama but some news feeds are reporting Alabama as being one of 3 that were the worst affected states...

Any other input guys?

~~ Slain Angel ~~

[jamesj]

My wife just brought this to my attention, has anyone else noticed this....

The FEDS at the start of this were giving the Govener any thing that was asked for. (Their words) and then things went to crap quick!, Yeasterday Bush "named" the FEMA head as the diaster coordinater for katrina, and now things are getting better . The wife has asked me Why the Feds even thought the state Govenor had enough sense to coordinate this?

(Ingnore my spelling typing quick)