Is This A Cool Router Or... ?

[DrummerDude]

Hi guys!

Please have a look at this router and give your opinions about it. Is it a good bargain?

I will translate the specs from Bulgarian to English for you:

Electricity supply voltage: 230V/50 Hz (used in Europe)

Power (Vigour): 1020 Watt

RPM: 11500 - 34000

Chuck diameter: 6-8 millimetres

12 router bits included in the package

2 years guarantee

Price - 39,99 Bulgarian Levs (about 25 US Dollars)

Thanks!

PS: I hope the picture is visible. Please, inform me if it is not and I will upload it to another server.

[Mattia]

It's a cheap, nasty, probably made-in-the-far-east router. It'll do the job, but don't count on it to be a lifetime tool. Also, the router bits you get with it? Gonna be pretty lousy. I usually pay more for a single good bit than that entire router costs.

Edited September 18, 2005 by mattia

[DrummerDude]

Thank you for your reply, mattia

I only need the router for my upcoming Telecaster project. I hope I could route all the cavities on the body. After this I may simply put the router in the closet and forget about it.

I hope this thing will not break while I am routing my first Telecaster. Actually this was my question: are those cheap routers OK for routing the cavities on one single guitar or will they break in the very beginning?

I just don't want to spend 30 bucks on a good router bit when I could have 12 bad ones plus the very router for less.

Am I on the wrong way?

[SwedishLuthier]

It will probably take you through a single guitar. Otherwise you can just return it. The ad says 2 year warranty. The most risky part could be the bits. If a bad bit brakes during use, it could destroy the body completely. I remember a thred ot long ago about that. It has also hapened to me, but I was lycky, and no damage done.

I’d say buy the router, and get a few, high quality bits.

Peter

Edited September 18, 2005 by SwedishLuthier

[Mattia]

Thank you for your reply, mattia

I only need the router for my upcoming Telecaster project. I hope I could route all the cavities on the body. After this I may simply put the router in the closet and forget about it.

I hope this thing will not break while I am routing my first Telecaster. Actually this was my question: are those cheap routers OK for routing the cavities on one single guitar or will they break in the very beginning?

I just don't want to spend 30 bucks on a good router bit when I could have 12 bad ones plus the very router for less.

Am I on the wrong way?

←

The thing about cheap bits is that they go dull quicker, usually aren't as sharp to begin with, and aren't made to very high standards (can be irregular). It's not so much that they'll break as that they'll dull, burn the wood, and give you higher chances of tearout because of it. Also, maybe 1 or 2 of the bits in that set will be useful for guitar building, and I'm willing to bet none of them are template bits with bearings on. You might get a flush trim bit, which could be OK for some of the body shaping with a template, but again, cheap bit, not so great cut, etc. etc. You can use straight bits (shaft diameter = cutting diameter) as a poor man's template bit, riding the shaft against the template, but it's not terribly accurate, and pretty hard on the bits and template alike. Forget using anything plastic with this method, as they'll just burn through the templates in an instant.

You'll probably still want to get a decent quality template bit (bearing on top) for the body, and unless you can get a proper 1/4" collet, you'll have to get it from an EU source.

Personally, I reccomend buying a good tool to start with. I still have my first router, still use it frequently. Have a couple of new ones as well, but there's nothing wrong with that first blue Bosch. Cost me quite a bit, but it was worth every penny I spent. It is the #1 power tool I use to build my electrics.

[Mickguard]

I bought one of those cheap routers a few months back (they cost about 18 euros now) --I wasn't sure how deep into this I'd get and didn't want to shell out for a "real" router ...

The router still works, and I've used it quite a bit...the lever for locking the router into position stripped out --I use a wrench on the screw to lock it down now.

The bits that came with are crap as the other pointed out --worse, they're dangerous. I had one snap on me while I was routing...luckily I'd put the little vacuum cleaner plastic guard thing in place (not that that works), and that stopped the bit from going into me.

Luckily the big national hardware chain here now puts out its own line of carbide-tipped bits --at 9 or so euros a piece. So far, they're holding up well --as well as the one fancy expensive bit I'd bought.

Wish I could find bearing bits here though!

The upshot is: for one guitar, I'd say this router will do just fine. You'll probably want to get at least one decent straight bit--most of the bits you'll get in that kit are not much use for working on a guitar anyway.

I'm debating whether to replace my router now or whether to keep using it until it gives out...

[DrummerDude]

Thanks. Seems that it is OK to buy a cheap router as long as you use high quality bits with it?

[Mickguard]

Thanks. Seems that it is OK to buy a cheap router as long as you use high quality bits with it?

←

That's my opinion!

[n8rofwyo]

I'd be forced to agree. If you're just using the router for guitar building, then you probably don't need anything more than a hobby quality tool. That's not to say you wouldn't be much happier with a better quality router, but the one you have in mind should work fine. I noticed you said it had a 8mm collet. That means you will need to work slowly and with light passes to be safe.

I also agree that good quality bits will be much safer, as well as produce much more uniform results.

To give you the idea of the bits that may be usefull, here is a list of the ones I commonly use.

1/4" x 1 1/4" straight bit

1/4" x 1 1/2" top bearing straight bit

1/2" x 1 1/2" bottome bearing sraight bit

1/2" x 2" straight bit

1/2" x 1 1/2" roundover bit

1/8" x 1 1/4" straight bit

Hope everything goes well, and good luck on the tele.

Nate Robinson

[ZoSo_Spencer]

Hey...

I just bought a cheap-o router (100 AUS) and it come with 10 bits and a few other things..

router

I will not use the bits it came with as i have already order the bit i need 40$ (more than 1/3 of the cost of my router) well atleast i wont use them on my guitar nor anyone elses

I will 2nd the opinion of; yeah buy the cheap router but use good bits, and the router will last...

[Mickguard]

I noticed you said it had a 8mm collet.  That means you will need to work slowly and with light passes to be safe. 

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I don't get that part...that's referring to the bit shaft size -- over here they seem to come in 6 mm and 8 mm.

The better routers appear to tend toward 6 mm, though most seem adjustable to accept both sizes.

A 6 mm shaft is equivalent to a 1/4" shaft.

[Mattia]

I noticed you said it had a 8mm collet.  That means you will need to work slowly and with light passes to be safe. 

←

I don't get that part...that's referring to the bit shaft size -- over here they seem to come in 6 mm and 8 mm.

The better routers appear to tend toward 6 mm, though most seem adjustable to accept both sizes.

A 6 mm shaft is equivalent to a 1/4" shaft.

←

Eh? The better routers come with 8mm standard, and if they're big enough, 12mm as well. 6mm is, far as I can see, mostly found on smaller, underpowered machines. Usually you replace the whole collet assembly, no 'adjusting' as such.

Personally, I think 8mm is a better size for 'smaller' bits than the 6 (which is, as you point out, a hair under 1/4". Too much to use 1/4" bits in, though), but the majority of bits out there for good prices are in imperial, ergo my choice of collets.

[Mickguard]

Eh? The better routers come with 8mm standard, and if they're big enough, 12mm as well.

←

Sure, sorry, I don't mean the professional routers...I'm talking about the mid-level stuff I've seen, like Black n' Decker...they seem to say 6 - 8 mm on their boxes (of course, I've never bothered to look that closely at any of the higher priced routers!)

So how come Stew Mac only has 1/4" inch bits if the 'better' routers use larger diameters?

[Mattia]

Eh? The better routers come with 8mm standard, and if they're big enough, 12mm as well.

←

Sure, sorry, I don't mean the professional routers...I'm talking about the mid-level stuff I've seen, like Black n' Decker...they seem to say 6 - 8 mm on their boxes (of course, I've never bothered to look that closely at any of the higher priced routers!)

So how come Stew Mac only has 1/4" inch bits if the 'better' routers use larger diameters?

←

Well, the better large routers come with both 1/4" and 1/2" sized collets, and adjustable speeds. Most of the things you do in guitar work, like truss rod slots, pickup cavities, can be done easily with a 1/4" bit, and all US-sold routers have 1/4" collets. Not all of them have 1/2" collets, and that's why I think StewMac sells 1/4" shaft bits.

The bigger the bit, the bigger you want the shaft to be, and you probably want to step the rotation speed down a tad. A 1/2" shaft for a 1/8" cutting diameter bit is ridiculous, but give me a 1/2" shaft template bit for cutting bodies over a 1/4" shaft template bit any day of the week. Ditto in case of a longer bit: the longer the bit in use, the thicker I prefer the shank to be.

[gpcustomguitars]

I've had a Sparky for 5 years now, Made in Korea, and wasn't tempted to upgrade as yet. It came with collets for both 6 and 8 mm. 450W, believe it or not, and I also use it as in a jig for thicknessing, planing etc... Never felt underpowered.

Had it fixed 2 times - rotor was re-wound due to my inexpirience (reads: stupidity) cause I happily routed for an hour, and therefore burned the rotor, and re-adjusting the main bearing, due to my use of a very wide bit (42mm).

I think that power is never the issue, I would check the whole carriage for wobbleness, cause that's the main problem with most of the cheapos. Push it up and down a few times, check for easyness of return, locking in position, etc...if that's OK, you should be fine.

That said, I still would consider buying something in the 80-120$ range.

BR

Goran

[Mickguard]

Well waddya know...I found my bearing bit!

I asked around--turns out there's a shop not far away selling woodworking machinery to the pros...they had a whole wall rack of CMT bits...all with 8mm shanks.

Pricey though!

[DrummerDude]

I've had a Sparky for 5 years now, Made in Korea, and wasn't tempted to upgrade as yet. It came with collets for both 6 and 8 mm. 450W, believe it or not, and I also use it as in a jig for thicknessing, planing etc... Never felt underpowered.

←

Sparky is a Russian company that makes awesome tools. Their handheld saws are Totally Vigorous. They bought the former Bulgarian power tool company "Eltos" (which used to make the most solid long-lasting tools known to humanity) and now Sparky's Bulgarian line of tools is siply astonishing.

Actually I just dumped the cheap router idea and decided that I will go for a Sparky router. Their factory is only 90 kilometers away from me.

[Mickguard]

Actually I just dumped the cheap router idea and decided that I will go for a Sparky router. Their factory is only 90 kilometers away from me.

←

Not only that your tool already has a cool pet name

[n8rofwyo]

Mattia has exactly voiced my concerns about useing a 8mm collet vs. a 12mm collet. Spinning large or long bits with a 8mm collet is, in my opinion, dangerous if you don't take it slow and easy.

Nate Robinson

[RAI6]

Not only that, your tool already has a cool pet name...

Hey, who doesn't have a pet name for their "tool"....?

[Doc]

US routers used to come in three sizes: 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". In the late '60's 3/8" bits and collets sorta just disappeared and 1/2: stuff took over for commercial and heavy duty. You can still find some 3/8" but it's pretty rare. Sears used to sell a ton of it.

Most of what you're paying for when you buy a more expensive router is the quality of the bearings and the guality of the motor windings. Also, some for the quality of things like the fittings. The first two affect the durability and accuracy, the second the safety and "toss it against the wall" factor.

I have a couple of cheap routers that I use for one thing only. I keep a 1/4" diameter straight bit in one set up to cut the slot for cabinet backs, for example. It doesn't require a lot of durability or precision.

If you take small enough bites you can safely do any of the routing asspciated with guitar making with a cheap router and cheap bits. The problems comes when you get in an hurry and try to cut a pickup cavity in a couple of passes. I have a 3hp Elu and professional quality bits and I still only step down a maximum of maybe 3/8" per pass. If your router slows down noticeably while you're cutting you're straining it and the bet too much.

Something to remember: When you slow a motor down from its rated speed it draws increasingly more current. This is just how physics works. This makes the sucker heat up faster and wear and burn out faster. Your bits also heat up more and heat is the enemy of sharpness.

[Mickguard]

You know, considering how important routers are for buildng guitars, how come there isn't good pinned tutorial on using them and using them safely?

That'd help me a lot...

[stevenhoneywell]

You might be able to hire a better quality unit locally for less ?

[Mickguard]

You might be able to hire a better quality unit  locally for less ?

←

Yeah, but technically that's against the law.

[DrummerDude]

You know, considering how important routers are for buildng guitars, how come there isn't good pinned tutorial on using them and using them safely?

That'd help me a lot...

←

I support this idea.

I've seen a ton of guitar building tutorials and they always kind of skip the routing part.

Does anybody know a good and detailed pickup & neck socket routing pictorial?