dnicarry Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Hello, I'm building a 6-string bass out of black walnut, cocobolo, and red maple. I am having a helluva time finding someone willing or able to produce a 34" scale, fretless, 6-string neck-through body neck. I just don't have the "technical savvy" to figure out how to do the truss rods and fingerboards etc and what I like to do is take the two halfs of the body I've built and mate them to the neck.. Is this insane? or should I just go with a bolt-on neck?.. (I'd rather not..) Any help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks, Derek (I am in the New England area, New Hampshire specifically) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I think Carvin will sell you a 6 string fretless neck. It won't be laminated or anything, just Maple with an Ebony board. They have other woods too, but I don't think you can get a multilam to match your body work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnicarry Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I think Carvin will sell you a 6 string fretless neck. It won't be laminated or anything, just Maple with an Ebony board. They have other woods too, but I don't think you can get a multilam to match your body work. ← thanks.... do you think they have neck-through though?.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I doubt you'd really need to worry about a truss rod on a fretless neck if you used a sturdy enough wood. It's not like you'll be adjusting it a fraction of a millimeter so that the frets don't buzz. Just seems silly to me if the wood is inherently strong enough. Maybe you could just throw in a set of CF rods for added safety. You can build this neck, especially since it's fretless. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Call them! Dont know how experienced you are, but ou can always buy this: http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?...er=NT6B&CID=BKT and pull the freets, glue thin strips of wood or plastic in the fret slot and sand everything level. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 A truss rod is explicitly necessary in a contemporary 6 string bass neck. CF rods would not substitute for the adjustability. The lack of fret slots doesn't add enough stability if any at all. Fretted necks have slots, yes, but then the slots are filled under pressure, sometimes strengthening a neck or even causing it to backbow when not under string tension. I do agree that a 6-string fretless bass neck is certainly buildable by a newbie. But the best method would be a nice, easy straight truss rod channel, either made with a router or table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 I never said it would be stronger because it was fretless. I said that you could insure it was straight with good quartersawn wood(impied) and some CF rods. I have built two guitars, one has CF rods in the neck, the other does not. Both are straight and neither has ever needed tension to be put on the truss rod(they're loose). Go look at David(myka)'s site. He built a guitar w/ tubular CF in the neck and no truss rod. This was at a customer's request. That plays fine as well. You don't have to have a truss rod to have a perfectly playing neck. However!, if you were compitent enough to put CF into a neck, you could just as easily put a double action truss rod in. It really comes down to being a matter of confidence and construction quality. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 A six string bass has roughly 250 pounds of tension on it, compared to a guitar's 100 pounds. In addition, the neck is longer. There is more mass on the neck to accomodate the strings, but the proportions do not match the increase in length or tension. And a fretless does benefit from slight adjustments, because it changes the way it feels and the way the note sustains. I also have guitars not carrying truss rod tension. It's irrelevant. Whether someone could build an effective non-adjustable neck is also irrelevant. I think it's bad advice to encourage someone who hasn't ever built before to try to be able to choose the appropriate wood and glue it up properly, all without a truss rod. Especially when it's going to be a neck through. There is no remedying it without removing the fretboard. The "could I make a neck without a truss rod?/does a neck need a truss rod?" debate should be had elsewhere. It's a hard enough challenge for the experienced builder to grasp. You have to shape a fall-off, and be able to choose and laminate your wood to be straight (ideally bowed) under tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 carvins pretty cool about doing things your way, i know you can get fretted neckthrough necks up to a six but i bet if you call them you can get them to put a fretless board on the neck for you for a "fee" i dont really like thier necks though in my opinion they are just too plain jane.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I've got a neck-thru blank for a six that might work for you. PM me if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Carvin does neck through six-string blanks, and will do them in fretless too. In fact, every neck option they offer on their six string basses, they will also do on the neck blanks: http://www.carvin.com/products/guitar.php?ItemNumber=LB76 And here's the listing for the blank itself: http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?...er=NT6B&CID=BKT Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnicarry Posted September 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 wow!... big debate on here...LOL... at any rate, I did call Carvin and they can get me a 6-string fretless (with a truss rod ) with side dots and 34" for around $269.99 in four weeks... I'm thinking this may be the way I'll go, however... here's the bigger question... am I insane to build a body, cut it in half (not literally, there's just less typing involved if I say it this way) and then bonding the neck between the two "wings" created?.. sort of a : top portion of body neck bottom portion of body sandwhich... LOL BTW... thoughts on "Gorilla Glue"?... I built a "whamola" about two years ago and that stuff was "the balls".. it was strong to the point that I purposefully tried to seperate two pieces I had glued as tests strips and could not do it.. I tried under all sorts of circumstances... heat, humidity, submerged in water for over 24 hours.. never did get it apart... the Whamola, from what I hear, still plays awesome.. (gave it to an old buddy of mine, he'd get more use out of it than I ever would have..LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Am I insane to build a body, cut it in half (not literally, there's just less typing involved if I say it this way) and then bonding the neck between the two "wings" created? What's so crazy about that? That's exactly how you build a neck-through.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 here's the bigger question... am I insane to build a body, cut it in half (not literally, there's just less typing involved if I say it this way) and then bonding the neck between the two "wings" created?.. sort of a : top portion of body neck bottom portion of body sandwhich... LOL Maybe just add a top and back, instead of trying that, Just resaw your body wood so you can do that, or buy another figured top and back. Plus you might have to shave down the neck(where the body would be) a fair amount unless you want a really thick guitar. Anyways thats all if I am understanding you correctly. Good luck. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n8rofwyo Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 dnicarry, I think that you are on the right track for a neck through. I will state up front that I have never built one. I have been here long enought to read many posts from those who have, though. I think that as long as the heel of the neck is the maximum thickness you want from the body then you're ok. You can always sand, scrape, or plane the "neck through" to be flush with the body. And as RAI6 says, that's - in a nutshell - how it's done. Put wings on her and let her fly brother! Good Luck. Nate Robinson Oh, and welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) here's the bigger question... am I insane to build a body, cut it in half (not literally, there's just less typing involved if I say it this way) and then bonding the neck between the two "wings" created?.. sort of a : top portion of body neck bottom portion of body sandwhich... LOL I think he is trying to make it so that you can't see the neck part. So it is encased in body wood, by cutting some slots in the body wood, in a way so that they cover the neck front and back. If so, unless he shaves the neck down to a thinner size, the body will be thicker because he would have to have the wood cover the neck. Think of a one piece back with a channel for the neck going down it, and then a top the same way, then gluing it up so the neck is inside the body. I think I get what he is saying but it is very difficult to descibe. Do you guys get it? Edited September 20, 2005 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Like this (cap on the back only, not the front). It's easy really, its just best to plan it that way from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Adding a top and/or a back doesn't exactly fall in the "glue on wings" category, as the poster described it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) Adding a top and/or a back doesn't exactly fall in the "glue on wings" category, as the poster described it... I agree, but it seems very hard to describe what I am thinking that he is talking about. It could be considered a top and back, bit still makes the wings for a neck through even though the neck is covered. There would be some issues to address if he went that way, because he would have to shave down the front of the neck just right to have the fretboard sit above the guitar just right, along with the neck angle. Also unless you shave down both front and back of the neck you would end up with a thicker than usual guitar. I'm sure there would be other issues to deal with also but I am not experienced in this much at all, so maybe some other members could comment on it, or maybe someone has done it. Heck who knows maybe I am way off what he is talking about, who knows. Here is a stupid pic of what I am talking about, I am no good at paint so it is what it is, hopefully someone will understand it. If it's too small, tell me and I will try to make it bigger. Also there would be no gaps between the top and back anywhere,it would look solid, with a seam around all the sides. Edited September 20, 2005 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Instead of doing it that way, it is easier to just decide on the thickness of the body, decide on the thickness of your core and front & back caps, then plane down the thickness of the neck blank to match the core (which will be the wings). If you want a core that's thinner than 0.75" or so, then you'd need to step the thickness down at the body-end of the neck-thru blank (you don't want the thickness of the neck, sans fretboard, much thinner than 0.75" to start with). So then just glue on your wings (which will form the core), clean up the surface, and glue on your front and/or back caps (bookmatched across the center line, or whatever). The key is to plan it all out ahead of time. In my case (photo below) I wanted the neck lams to show at the front of the guitar, so my wings already had the caps glued onto them over the walnut core prior to gluing onto the neck blank (I also rough-cut the cutaways prior to glue-up, which turned out to be key). Then for the back I put down a 3-piece ebony accent layer followed by a 3-piece bookmatched cap which covered the lams in back (photo 2 posts up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAI6 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 While that isn't impossible, it would require EXTREME accuracy. The way to go is to glue on wings, and then add a back and front. If you really have to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnicarry Posted September 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Thanks for the help everyone Here is the long version of what I was planning on doing.. The bass is somewhat inspeired by the C.Thompson "Rainbow bass" and the "$10 million bass", with elements froma couple of others.. Bass-ically , the top is a five piece top blk walnut, cocobolo strip (3/4"),blk walnut center (where sing EMG pu/ will go), cocobolo strip (3/4"), blk walnut bottom.. what I had planned on doing was making the walnut center piece ultra thin and then planing the neck down if need be to fit it up underneath the center piece. The back will look the same except that there will be 3 pieces, blk walnut, cocobolo strip (to hid backside of neck), then blk walnut bottom.. now the front and backsides are sandwhiched to a red oak core which is the full body (minus where the neck goes)... so here is the order in which it would be assembled: 1) red oak "wings" glued to neck, cure 48 hours or so.. 2) plane neck down to be even with the "wings" 3) glue back pieces on cure 48 hours or so 4) glue front pieces on, cure again 5) rout out electronics cavity, etc 6) drill six holes for string to go through end (doing the obligitory CT styled bridge like in the picture below) and the rest is history... this is going to take a reallllllly long time, but I will start posting pictures as soon as I get my laptop up and running again (unfortunately, I only have my computer at work right now) Thanks again for all the help and advice.. you guys rock! BTW... nobody ever said anything about my comments on "Gorilla Glue"... I have worked with wood epoxies and stuff in the past and I hate it.. I really have had a lot of good luck with this stuff.. it's all in prepping the wood.. you have to rough it up pretty good.. I usually draw a hacksaw blade across the wood and make a "cross hatch" pattern on both sides to be mounted.. then you wet down the wood with a very wet spong until that first little layer of wood is thouroughly wet..glue it and clamp the hell out of it.. The only bit of drawback is that the Gorrilla Glue tends to foam out the ends being boding, but it planes off rather nicely and leaves a reallllllllly tough bond.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 OK, now I get you...red oak core, walnut caps front & back with cocobolo between them and the center strip (neck blank covered with walnut on front, cocobolo on back). So the neck blank will be covered both front and back on the body. I would have all my wood planed and the thicknesses checked before I glued the first pieces. The order in which you do things depends entirely on where you are planning to put the walnut-coco-walnut glue joints for the front and back caps. Will the joints front & back line up with each other? Will either of them line up with the oak-neck blank joints, or will the caps overlap those joints? Are the caps covering the neck blank exactly the same width as the neck blank? Glue-I use Titebond 1 exclusively, but people here have had good results with Gorilla Glue also. With either one, be sure you wipe off the oils of the cocobolo really really well with acetone or naptha (and then make sure they're dry) before gluing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnicarry Posted September 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 precisely.. the caps would be covering the joints (if I remember anything my high school geometry teacher tought... of course, high school was a long time ago and I seem to recall stumbling in to class on more than one occasion after an "herbal" lunch break.. ) yeah, I was wondering about the cocobolo..thanks for the tip, gotta remember to go out and get some naptha, I have some Acetone, but I've had better results cleaning other woods with naptha in the past.. also, I've been reading up on cocobolo and seems like it can be pretty hairy stuff to work with.. some sites claiming that it can be as irritating as poison ivy to some people.. ever had any problems working with that stuff.. (just thought I'd pop that question in there as a "general interst" type of question.. horror stories are always welcome..LOL!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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