Warmoth Wizard Vs. The Real Thing

[fookgub]

Hello All,

I am pretty new to the forums, so please excuse me if my question is inappropriate.

I am getting ready to order a neck and body from Warmoth, and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with their "wizard" neck profile. I have an Ibanez RG520 with a wizard neck, and it's by far my favorite guitar neck shape. With the Warmoth, I'm hoping to build a guitar that has everything the 520 lacks, but retains the same feel. I'm very picky about necks, and if the Warmoth is much different, I'm afraid that I'll be disappointed. So, does anyone know how close the Warmoth is to the real Ibanez wizard?

Also, does anyone know if the standard Warmoth headstock is set up so the strings pull straight through the nut (as opposed to coming off the nut at an angle ala Les Pauls)? Note, I'm talking about the side-to-side angle, not that "tilt-back" that many guitars feature. I really think it's better for tuning stability to have no angle at the nut, but if that's not achievable, I'll just order a reverse Jackson headstock because I've always though they looked cool.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your opinions.

[eddiewarlock]

A friend of mine bought a neck with a 1 3/4" nut width neck from Warmoth, and wizard profile, and i loved it! i thought it was fantastic, but i like wide/ fat necks, that one wasn´t fat at all but the width was just perfect

[Scott Rosenberger]

They're not the same. the warmoth is still a bit thicker than the real thing

[fookgub]

They're not the same. the warmoth is still a bit thicker than the real thing

←

That's a little disappointing to hear. eddiewarlock's comments got me thinking, though, that maybe I should try something different. I've always liked wide/thin necks (like the wizard), so I bet I'd like a wider/slightly thicker neck, too. Plus, the only other alternative for me is to ebay a wizard, then replace the locking nut with a normal one and refret it with vintage wire (and I still wouldn't have the ebony board I've been wanting).

Anyway, thanks for the opinions so far. I'll have to give a bit of thought to the nut width, but I think I'm going to try the warmoth/wizard combo. Now, about that headstock... does anyone know if the strings pull straight though or not?

Thanks again.

[GuitarMaestro]

Try Usa Custom Guitars. They were founded by an ex-Warmoth employee and usually are very motivated to do stuff that is "more" custom than what Warmoth does. Just ask them if they would build you a Wizard copy with the features you want. I bet they'll do that and they have an excellent reputation.

[Nitefly SA]

u could always get it unfinished and sand it down a bit, get her closer toyour wizard.

[fookgub]

The more I think about it, the more I think no one will be able to make an exact wizard except Ibanez. Not to bash anybody's work (I know Warmoth and USACG both have excellent reputations)... but after all, it is Ibanez's neck. They have all the tooling to make the real thing, whereas everyone else is trying to make a copy.

I may give USACG a ring when the time comes, but unless they think they can do a very exact copy, I'll probably go with the Warmoth. Not that I don't like USACG, but I was hoping to have a matching headstock veneer, so it makes sense to get the neck and body finished together. I would try to sand the neck down if I was going to do my own finishing, but I wouldn't feel comfortable attempting to do the finish on the headstock veneer.

Anyway, I finally dug up some pictures on the internet, and it looks like the strings do pull stright through the nut with the Warmoth headstock. I'll have to check when I order, but if they don't I have a backup plan in the reverse Jackson (I don't know why I like shredder guitars so much... I don't even play metal).

[perhellion]

I recommend USACG highly. To me, they are much more open to "options" on request. They will probably make the neck as thin as a real Wizard, but probably warn you it could crack near the nut -- lots of Ibanez Wizards crack here also -- why they went to that bubingar reinforcing stripe. I think the Wizard is a little too thin. If you ordered 1 3/4" nut width, and say a Jackson thickness, I'd bet it would be a little sturdier but still thin enough.

[GuitarMaestro]

The more I think about it, the more I think no one will be able to make an exact wizard except Ibanez. Not to bash anybody's work (I know Warmoth and USACG both have excellent reputations)... but after all, it is Ibanez's neck. They have all the tooling to make the real thing, whereas everyone else is trying to make a copy.

Every luthier worth his price will make you a nice copy. There is no "secret" to making a Wizard neck. It's a basic and simple design. Nothing special about it at all. In fact it could be improved in several ways: Order one with a bubinga stripe(I know Ibanez offer this as well for quite some time now) or carbon rods for better stability and use a top-mount locking nut. Makes the neck ways more stable than the original without changing the feel.

[frank falbo]

The only reason someone wouldn't be able to make a Wizard proile is if their truss rod channel was too deep. The Wizard pushes the envelope to "dangerously thin" and should have structural enhancements when possible.

As for the actual feel of the neck, it's hard to find two Wizards exactly alike anyway. They're hand sanded after the CNC cuts them, so there will always be some variation. But there are huge differences from the original '87's until now. The original were more "V" shaped, for a more "cupped" feel while some of the later versions became more squared off ("D" profile). With a lot of "C" variations in between. So whoever builds your neck, don't expect it to feel exactly like yours unless you send them yours for a custom carve. Otherwise you can just assume it's probably the same as SOME Wizards out there, but not all.

Vintage fretwire will make the neck feel even thinner overall, because your fret top-to-back thickness will be further reduced. If you haven't tried vintage wire on a Wizard yet, my advice would be to opt for a neck slightly thicker than a real Wizard. I mean, you could lose 1/64" in fret height from vintage to full jumbo fretwire.

Edited October 15, 2005 by frank falbo

[RGGR]

Find luthier with copycarver and all your dreams can come true.

[GuitarMaestro]

@falbo: Excellent advice as always! But do you really think anyone could feel a difference of 1/64" in neck thickness?!?!?

[Jester700]

Warmoth's measurement is a bit thicker. I asked them if they could do the old Yamaha Pacifica profile, and they said it was no longer programmed, but that they were going for a wizard feel for that, so that's the one to get. BUT they don't offer the carbon rods anymore. The guy said that isn't a problem, but the only neck I ever had that warped was a wizard, so I just don't trust it.

USACG WILL put in the rods.

Note that the warmoth will have their compound radius by default. *I* think that's an improvement, but if you don't, be sure to order the 16" straight radius.

[eddiewarlock]

thin necks don´t provide a good sound, they more unstable and prone to twisting, if you really want a wizard neck, i recommend laminated neck, and carbon fiber rods

[fookgub]

Wow, lots of great advice here. I think some reinforcement is in order no matter who builds the neck. If I get Warmoth to do it, I might see if I can get them to do a 5-piece wenge/bubinga or wenge/purpleheart neck. I'm a little surprised they don't offer carbon fiber on their guitar necks... they seem so proud of the steel reinforcement in their bass necks.

Falbo, thanks for the heads up on different wizard shapes. I haven't really played many others besides mine, but now that I think about it, mine does seem to feel thinner than most. It does have a bubinga strip, but I always thought that was just for the trussrod rout. You're right that the vintage fret wire will make the neck feel slimmer. I played a bass that had been refretted with mandolin wire, and it made a huge difference.

RGGR, I always wondered if a device like the copy carver existed. Now that I know, I wonder why every woodworker in the world doesn't have one! Makes me want to go in a different direction with this project, since a good luthier could probably make a neck-through with an exact copy of my neck pretty easily. After I priced this stuff out at Warmoth, I realized it's going to be a little more expensive than I first thought. It's not a problem per se, but the Warmoth is pushing full custom territory as far as price goes. I may spend a little time looking for local luthiers.

Anyway, now that I'm starting to realize how many options there are, I think I'm actually further away from beginning this project than when I started this topic. I would really like to start building my own instruments, but with little time and a move coming in January, now isn't the best time to start putting my shop together.

[RGGR]

RGGR, I always wondered if a device like the copy carver existed. Now that I know, I wonder why every woodworker in the world doesn't have one!

Copy carvers and CNC machines are your luthiers wet dream. But lack of this is main problem, I guess.

Copy Carvers can be great machines as they can make life easy. Specially handy if making series of same guitar (production environment). But a good luthier can do everything a Copy Carver or CNC machine can do.....with only difference that more handwork is involved.

Makes me want to go in a different direction with this project, since a good luthier could probably make a neck-through with an exact copy of my neck pretty easily.

Exact copy, I'm not so sure......but coming very close......I'm convinced.

After I priced this stuff out at Warmoth, I realized it's going to be a little more expensive than I first thought. It's not a problem per se, but the Warmoth is pushing full custom territory as far as price goes. I may spend a little time looking for local luthiers.

You should always ask local luthiers first.......he can listen to your desires and with his experience can offer you suggestions you yourself might have never thought of.

Anyway, now that I'm starting to realize how many options there are, I think I'm actually further away from beginning this project than when I started this topic. I would really like to start building my own instruments, but with little time and a move coming in January, now isn't the best time to start putting my shop together.

You found this website....and the more time you spend here, the more the bug will be planted of rolling your own. Once this bug is planted there is no turning back.....yeah, you could still order from Warmoth (et al.)......but for your next guitar this little voice in the back of your mind will start calling again.

You first have to make clear for yourself what it is you want in new neck. That's most important step. Talk to local luthiers and see what options are out there. Many members on this board shy away from building there own necks. So rolling your own is not feat you should take lightly. It can be very challeging.

Still suckers like me whom just dive in and discover it's very doable....even for newbee........but it takes good planing and good judgement of your own skills.

Edited October 16, 2005 by RGGR