Newbie Question Alert

[loudandproud]

Ok, tonally speaking.

Is there an advantage to a one peice body over a three piece body (wing, center, wing, with a maple cap VS. Solid body with maple cap.)

the reason i ask is,

I have two options of mahogany for my telecaster.

three quartersawn peices of mahogany glue together with a bookmatched maple top.

or a flat sawn piece of mahogany with a bookmatched maple top.

Edited October 19, 2005 by loudandproud

[Drak]

I have no problems with anything from a 3-piece to a 1 piece.

4 pieces or over I wouldn't use.

[Nitefly SA]

you're more likely to have defects with a one piece but sometimes you can see the little crevices where the woods meed on 2+ piece bodies, no real tonal difference though. they both have their ups and downs, doesnt really matter.

[ryanb]

A one piece body is more important when using a transparent finish and no decorative top, where the joints and grain differences are visible. With a solid finish, there's not much reason not to save some money using two or three pieces, which is often more stable anyway.

[GuitarGuy]

A one piece body is more important when using a transparent finish and no decorative top, where the joints and grain differences are visible.  With a solid finish, there's not much reason not to save some money using two or three pieces, which is often more stable anyway.

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^ I agree with him. Theres a lot of voodoo it the guitar world.

Prime example.....tap tuning. My goodness that idea is just plain absurd.

Take this example. Tap a solid piece of brass. You get a lovely thud. Turn it on a lathe to the shape of a bell and you get something that rings loud and clear.

Now yes the vibrating guitar body affects the strings but that falls more toward the density of the wood. Density affects sound transmission. And no wood is uniform. So gluing a blank is every bit as variable as a solid piece. Its all the same in my eye.

[Mattia]

Prime example.....tap tuning. My goodness that idea is just plain absurd.

Take this example. Tap a solid piece of brass. You get a lovely thud. Turn it on a lathe to the shape of a bell and you get something that rings loud and clear.

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Uh, if your brass is thudding, all that means is that you're not holding it at a node. Ditto a piece of wood. And tap tuning, for electrics, is not something I find terribly useful overall. I do, however, prefer to use a piece of wood that has a resonant quality to it. Dull thuds throughout can indicate hidden checks and flaws, and a piece of wood that responds to fairly light tapping with pleasing resonance shouldn't hinder anything, and may well help tone. Some guitars just 'sing', and that's something I value in instruments, and find shows best when playing in low gain situations, maybe a touch of overdrive, preferably through not-too-hot pickups. The hotter the pickups, the less of the wood's character affects the final tone.

I don't, however, pretend that I'm controlling anything other than the most basic wood selection with this method. And with an electric, especially one played with distortion? I doubt it matters overmuch.

For acoustics, there's a whole lotta mojo goin' on where tap tuning is concerned, but people have gotten good results by following some sort of system. Tap tones, to some degree, reflect the properties of the workpiece. Some people do it by tapping, some use signal generators and look at chaldni patterns, others measure deflection, and people find a variety of different methods useful. And you can use tapping to determine the 'bar' mode frequency for an entire guitar (the neck and body resonating as one, lowest pitch), but again, I don't pretend to tune for it.

Back to the question: the 3-piece quartersawn blank will be more stable, and should be the tonal equal of the 1-piece, but if you're not doing solid colours, I'd probably go for the 1 piece for aesthetic reasons.

[Mickguard]

One piece mahogany definitely looks great, but as long as you're putting a maple cap on there, there's no need for that (unless you really like staring at the back of your guitar).

Tonally, I challenge any man to hear any difference!

[blackburncustomguitars]

Hi,

If I knew how to post pics (computer dummy that I am), I would show you a tone of wonderful-sounding guitars that are glue-lammed of from several to MANY pieces of beautiful figured woods. If you use titebond, use great wood, carefully finish with oils or nitro, the results can be outstanding. I must say that I get a little tired of so-called "experts" who say that guitars MUST be this or that way. Please, I have many pros who swear by beautiful glue-lammed bodies. Sorry if I have offended anyone.

Peace,

Dave

One piece mahogany definitely looks great, but as long as you're putting a maple cap on there, there's no need for that (unless you really like staring at the back of your guitar).

Tonally, I challenge any man to hear any difference!

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[daveq]

If anyone's ears are able to discern a multi-lam body from a 1 piece (of the same type of wood) - I think they should look into getting paid for that talent.

I just don't think it's possible.

In my limited experience - I have found that I prefer 2 piece bodies. I love the built-in center line.

I think some beginners may think that a 1 piece is best for a stained/dyed finish. Maybe that's true if you're not using a top but if you are using a top, a 2 piece is great. The glue lines should not be visible. The grain patterns should be the only thing that gives it away and that is usually also pretty hard to see (depending on the type of wood).

[blackburncustomguitars]

+1, bro.

Peace,

Dave

If anyone's ears are able to discern a multi-lam body from a 1 piece (of the same type of wood) - I think they should look into getting paid for that talent.

I just don't think it's possible.

In my limited experience - I have found that I prefer 2 piece bodies. I love the built-in center line.

I think some beginners may think that a 1 piece is best for a stained/dyed finish. Maybe that's true if you're not using a top but if you are using a top, a 2 piece is great. The glue lines should not be visible. The grain patterns should be the only thing that gives it away and that is usually also pretty hard to see (depending on the type of wood).

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[fryovanni]

Three piece should work just fine vs 1 piece. Looks will be the big difference. Get those joints tight and clean. It only take a little more time, but is very important to building. The only reason for a sloppy joint is someone rushed and didn't care enough to get it right.

P.S. Tap testing wood is just a way to hear how the wood sounds. Nothing strange or magical, but it is an indicator of how the wood resinates. Obviously more significant for thinner material (especially soundboards). As mentioned no two pieces of wood will sound exactly the same. A simple little test to help you get an idea of what you got can be handy. Now Tap tuning a carved arch top is another discussion(that would be further off topic, so nuff said).

Peace,Rich

[loudandproud]

i havent tap test my wood yet.

I stilll have found a real nice piece, i guess i will have to start.

[brian d]

Ok, tonally speaking.

<snip>

three quartersawn peices of mahogany glue together with a bookmatched maple top.

or a flat sawn piece of mahogany with a bookmatched maple top.

←

As has already been said, all else being equal 1 vs 3 piece body won't be siginificant for tone, and since you have a top, the aesthetics won't be much of an issue either.

However, not all else is equal. The three piece body is quartersawn, the 1 piece is flatsawn. This probably will give you a different tone. I think the quartersawn would give you a bit brighter tone and possibly more sustain. (More experienced builders may correct me if I'm mistaken).

Regards,

Brian.

[Mattia]

However, not all else is equal.  The three piece body is quartersawn, the 1 piece is flatsawn.  This probably will give you a different tone.  I think the quartersawn would give you a bit brighter tone and possibly more sustain.  (More experienced builders may correct me if I'm mistaken).

←

I can't say that I've ever noticed a tonal advantage to quartersawn wood, ever, or that I'd credit it with increased sustain. Remeber, flatsawn wood is quartersawn wood on it's side. The reason it's used is that it's less likely to go funny shapes when humidity and temperature jump about.

If you want sustain, build solidly, and choose your hardware with care, and pay attention to the smallest of details, but don't count on quartersawn vs. flatsawn wood. It *may* give you a slightly different tone, but so will any other piece of wood, because it's such a variable material.

[weaponepsilon]

My two cents...

I had a three plank body that didn't adapt very well to the change in climate and one of the pieces warped. I had to do a lot of work to repair someone else's little mistake. But in contrast, the multiple planks are fine as long as they have been aged about the same and are nice and dry. Between the single and multiple plank bodies, the only difference I had always thought was the way people wanted to make the grain and do the finishing.

[Marzocchi705]

I'll just throw another veiw ito the works here, my machines limit my body blank choice, i have to have a 2+ peice body as my planer is only 300mm wide, my blanks when glued up are wider than that. I do buy one peice tho, rip it up the center plane then glue back together, the grain matches near perfect. On my first i put a mahogany strip down an ash body. You cant do nice touches like that with a 1 peicer. well you can, but you have to make it a 2 peicer first.

Make it work for you, if 1 peice is what you want to have then have a 1 peice. Do a search for stew's stewcraft (i think thats what it was called) it was made out of multiple strips of wood and cleared over, it looked fantastic.

and that quarter over flat sawn, what i heap of voodoo. i can take my flat sawn neck blank, turn it to the quarter orientation, itl sound the same i bet.

[thegarehanman]

and that quarter over flat sawn, what i heap of voodoo. i can take my flat sawn neck blank, turn it to the quarter orientation, itl sound the same i bet

Betting is a poor habbit. However, you're totally right. I don't know where this myth came up, but a flatsawn board turned sideways is the same as a quartersawn board. What matters is the grain orientation, not how it was cut. Infact, if you're doing a neck w/ laminates, you'll most likely need to use "flatsawn" lumber to get the grain orientation perpendicular to the fretboard(like in a "quartersawn" 1 piece neck).

peace,

russ

[brian d]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a) stiffness of the wood affects the sound, and

b)wood is stiffer when quartersawn than flatsawn.

I'm I wrong about a) or b )?

In the case of using flatsawn lumber laminated side by side to get a quartersawn neck, woulnd't the neck be stiffer than if you laminated the flatsawn pieces one on top of the other (to get a laminated flatsawn neck)?

Thanks,

Brian.

Edited October 24, 2005 by brian d

[Mattia]

Stiffness can affect the sound (kinda has to, right?) although I'd be wary of trying to pinpoint how it affects it, exactly. I use CF rods in my neck builds to leave me with a more stable, even stiffness across the neck anyway, and on a fairly large board like the body, the relatively minimal string pull (remember most of the tension is in shear) probably won't affect things overmuch.

You're kinda sorta right and also a bit wrong about , though. How much stiffer (or not) a quartersawn vs. flatsawn piece of wood is depends on the species in question, but above all on the piece of wood in question. The variability between pieces is much larger than the variability between quartered and flatsawn wood. And honestly, I don't know of anyone who flexes body blank pieces to get a feel for stiffness. Neck blanks, at 1" thick, sure, that works out fine. Ultimately, the stability of quartersawn wood is what makes it so attractive, and the potential for slightly stiffer wood is an added bonus. To some. I know some players prefer a slightly more 'plastic' neck (say, Fender flatsawn neck without reinforcements) so they can do the 'bend the neck trem effect' thing. I like mine reinforced, but not everyone does, and having them a bit flexible does not mean they're automatically ton-suckers.

[brian d]

Thanks for clearing that up, Mattia.

Brian