Drak Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Yes, I am sometimes 'too much' to the point. Let's put it another, 'nicer' way. This is my rule of thumb for such matters: If the couple sitting in the 10th row listening to your band play can hear the difference in whatever it is you happen to be pronouncing opinions on, THEN you might be on to something. Otherwise, it's all just fun-n-games dinnertable/lunchtable conversation. So when I read all these threads on how chambering and pickup mounting and bridgeplates and hardtail vs. softtail and wood selection bla bla bla bla all contribute to tone, I just think about that couple sitting in the 10th row listening to your band as a whole and what they would think about it. And that IS in fact true, I can be in a crowd and hear the difference when a guitarist changes guitars or amp settings or hits a pedal, but not when he changes the way he mounts his pkps, or whether he has a Maple or Rosewood 'board, or whether he has a Lacquer or Poly or Tung Oil finish on his guitar. I mean, it's fun conversation for what it is, but no more than fun conversation in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mariah Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I wonder how many people listen with their brain as opposed to listening with their EARS. "I changed that... it MUST sound different!" It can be tough to know the difference. About 4 years ago I finally started noticing the tonal subtleties going on in my gear. That's when I started to go insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I wonder how many people listen with their brain as opposed to listening with their EARS. "I changed that... it MUST sound different!" It can be tough to know the difference. About 4 years ago I finally started noticing the tonal subtleties going on in my gear. That's when I started to go insane. Yeah, I think what I was saying could be paraphrased like that, Black. Basically, just rock out with your clock out and the rest will take care of itself. I also use this analogy sometimes: You know how when you use Mapquest, and you can either move way way up close to your destination or way way back to the entire state? When I read some of these threads, I'm thinking some of the folks need to reset their parameter back about 10 clicks and take a look at the 'whole' picture, not just that street. Dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 So when I read all these threads on how chambering and pickup mounting and bridgeplates and hardtail vs. softtail and wood selection bla bla bla bla all contribute to tone, I just think about that couple sitting in the 10th row listening to your band as a whole and what they would think about it. ← I know what the guy in that couple is thinking about--and it ain't YOUR tone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Now you've got the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 honestly, I don't care what the guy in the 10th row is thinking, not half as much as I care about what the guitarist is thinking. Ultimately, I play for me. I go for a what I love and enjoy. If I was doing it for the crowd (not, mind you, that I gig) I'd be playing a cheap factory guitar with a nice setup, because honestly, most people can't tell the difference. Clearly, it's about the whole, the combination of factors. But it's also about the details, and therein lies the beauty of building your own instruments. At a certain point, though, you just gotta go with what seems to make sense, and what's proven to work (more or less), and then see where that leads you. Don't overthink. Think enough, then build, and figure out what combinations work for you. The most annoying threads ever are the 'what precise effect will X have on my tone?' ones. But sometimes, it's just fun to argue semantics until the sun goes down. And then to realize that, hey, while details matter, you can't lose sight of the bigger picture, of the instrument as a whole. Where all that has lead me is to the belief that contruction (chambered or not, and particularly heavily chambered instruments, neck joints to a degree, etc.) is about as important as wood selection, if not more so, and that pickup selection is crucial. The rest is details, and mostly conjecture. But it can be damn fun conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 "There is a sucker born every minute" - PT Barnum ER is making money off those very same suckers who think they can tell the difference. Its all subjective, one man's tone is not necessarily perceived the same way by the other guy. Whats brown and sounds like a bell? "DUNGGGGGGG!" Hell! Sounds good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Glad to see that nobody's opinion matters to you, Drak. So you're saying that you're actually gonna do it Greg, to your guitar, and report back here with the results? You're going to show me that your OPINIONS were actually worth something solid and valid in the end? ← ME? Hell no. I think it's mostly a load of hooey. That's good enough for me. The facts with which my opinion is informed are also good enough for me. There are some things in life in which the data and the opinions meet in a way that leaves little to be questioned. In this case, I share the earlier stated opinion-- just do whichever one looks better for the project in question. That's a much better reason to choose between the two alternatives. I definitely think there's something to be said for reading people's opinions, though. If I went through this entire life only caring about my own opinion and/or only thinking something's important if I've done it in a hands-on way myself, I think I'd be missing out on a lot. As you say, the conversation can be fun anyhow. But if all you hear is "woof woof", there's not much room for conversation. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 As you say, the conversation can be fun anyhow. But if all you hear is "woof woof", there's not much room for conversation. ← Well, you do realize that for Drak, the development of the electric guitar pretty much ended with the telecaster? Of course, he may just be right! Oh yeah, and when I'm up on stage, I'm playing for the chicks first(of course I'm a singer )...next comes those 'fan-guys' who always crowd around the front of the stage trying to shake your hand while you're singing...then the boyfriends of the above chicks standing in the back with their arms folded trying not to groove...followed by the sloppy drunks skipping around the place like they're at a Grateful Dead concert (there's always one or two). And lastly--and I mean dead last--the other musicians there. It's MY stage, not theirs. Anyway, back on subject: I agree with Jnewman --there are certain technical issues that are really important --so that fancy neck joint may be a real interesting development for you if you're a devoted shredder. But in the end, the guitar's going to be the guitar it is. As long as the construction is of a reasonably good quality, the rest of it may or may not have some kind of effect. So what's really important to me (after that reasonable quality level has been met) is the LOOK of the guitar. Which is why Drak is right (because the telecaster is one of the great shapes of all time) but he's not the only one who's right ---there are just too many possibile designs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse666 Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I'm suprised only one person said "shut up and play".... Once you can play like a god then you can worry about what colour of mounting rings enhances tone most or what have you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I'm suprised only one person said "shut up and play".... Once you can play like a god then you can worry about what colour of mounting rings enhances tone most or what have you..... ← Why? I started (learning how to) build guitars about a month after I started taking lessons. To me, they go hand in hand. It's interesting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse666 Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Why? I started (learning how to) build guitars about a month after I started taking lessons. To me, they go hand in hand. It's interesting stuff. ← hmmmmm.... good point.... well instead of arguing over silly stuff you could be building a guitar or practicing... which reminds me I've got to get back to my guitar..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I doubt I'll ever be a great player; I simply spend too much time building to get to play an awful lot, and I'll leave the leet skillz to people who spend more time practicing, and less time buidling. Besides, when I do play, it tends to be an acoustic guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse666 Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I am a guitarist first and then a repairer (I have never built a guitar yet........ just modified stuff to my liking) so my comments are from a players perspective.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Besides, when I do play, it tends to be an acoustic guitar. Ewwwwwwwwwww! just kidding, just kidding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 ...honestly, I don't care what the guy in the 10th row is thinking... Absolutely! At our shows, we actively discourage thinking! If we wanted the audience's opinion, we'd give it to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 I'm really glad to see that there are at least a few people here who realize how crazy it is to over-analyze these things. I can't tell you how many times I've read someone complain about not wanting to use a Floyd because it doesn't give enough sustain or ruins their tone - or they don't want a bolt-on because it won't sustain as well as a neck-through, ... When I read these things, I can't help but think - OK, you can't have a Floyd ruining your sustain/tone on your hacked up/sloppy version of "eruption" (at least the 30 or so notes that you can attempt) or whatever music you're into. It would be different if Joe Satriani or Steve Vai or SRV, ... made these complaints. When it's someone trying to build their ultimate guitar (for their own enjoyment) - I really don't have any issue with it but I have a feeling some people just try to follow the trends to be "cool". I hope I'm wrong about that. The bottom line is - play what YOU like and don't bother with what is supposed to be the best. Oh yeah - spend more time worrying about how you play than what you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 It would be different if Joe Satriani or Steve Vai or SRV, ... made these complaints. ← Actually, it's worse when they do...I watched a video where Eric Johnson (or some hotshot guitar player, I don't usually pay much attention) spend a good while whining over his tone and showing all the little boxes he uses ... And then they all end up with that over-processed, denatured weird shredder tone they all seem to use! You know, that unnatural tone you here from that guy dancing his right hand fingers on the fretboard while his left hand fingers are moving a mile-a-minute, and all the while the guy's got some super serene serious expression on his face like he's the next Chopin...usually they have big puffy New Jersey-girl hair too. With all the processing they're doing to their signal, I can't imagine any of these 'tonal' issues matter one bit. I mean, my image of true guitar hero is someone like Keith Richards...I just can't imagine him getting all **** about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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