Guitar Does Not Intonate!

[iskim86]

i pulled the bridge saddle for the three wound strings all the way towards the nut and they all still fret flat at the high frets!! the A and D strings are so bad, they're about quarter step flat at the 24th! :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad:

any solution to this? it's definitely not the nut because I JUST replaced it with an Earvana nut!!

damn you intonation!! :mad:

would replacing the bridge work at all?

oh boy there goes another $100 for bridge installation and setup

[Nitefly SA]

are your saddles to low? i only have my E saddle all the way back, the rest are in the same spot and it plays fine.

[GregP]

I don't know what the heck people are doing half the time when they're intonating. What do you mean "fret flat at the high frets"? The only place that you can intonate your guitar properly is at the 12th fret. After that, if different positions on the fretboard produce dramatically different results, it's 'cause your fretboard is screwed.

If by "fret flat at the high frets" you DO mean the 12th fret, I'm afraid you're still prolly screwed. Your bridge was installed at the wrong place. If you do get a replacement, make sure it gives you more 'travel' for your saddles, or make a fresh installation at a new spot in new holes.

Finally, a mere installation of an Earvana nut won't necessarily clear everything up, though I suspect that it couldn't hurt in most cases.

Greg

[Setch]

Are the strings new?

[unclej]

a little more information might help us help you...is this a new guitar? i mean new to you..what type of guitar is it and what type of bridge does it have? did you have intonation prolems before changing the nut?

is it a guitar that you've had for a while? if so have you done anything to it other than replace the nut? if you've had it for a while did you change string gauge?

there's always a fix so let us have a little more info and let's see if we can help.

[iskim86]

I don't know what the heck people are doing half the time when they're intonating.    What do you mean "fret flat at the high frets"?  The only place that you can intonate your guitar properly is at the 12th fret.  After that, if different positions on the fretboard produce dramatically different results, it's 'cause your fretboard is screwed.

If by "fret flat at the high frets" you DO mean the 12th fret, I'm afraid you're still prolly screwed.  Your bridge was installed at the wrong place.  If you do get a replacement, make sure it gives you more 'travel' for your saddles, or make a fresh installation at a new spot in new holes.

Finally, a mere installation of an Earvana nut won't necessarily clear everything up, though I suspect that it couldn't hurt in most cases.

Greg

←

I intonate it at the 12 fret, and it's flat. and everything up above the 12th fret are flatter, etc, that's what I meant.

would turning the saddle around 180 degrees or turning the whole bridge help at all?

it's a tune-o-matic btw.

Are the strings new?

←

of course! i'm not a complete n00b

a little more information might help us help you...is this a new guitar?  i mean new to you..what type of guitar is it and what type of bridge does it have?  did you have intonation prolems before changing the nut?

is it a guitar that you've had for a while?  if so have you done anything to it other than replace the nut?  if you've had it for a while did you change string gauge?

there's always a fix so let us have a little more info and let's see if we can help.

←

no it's not a new guitar, I've had it for 3 years now. it's an ESP LTD SC500, neck through, tune-o-matic bridge, i think extra jumbo frets, 25.5" scale. yes I did have intonation problems before changing the nut.

I haven't done anything to it other than attempting to set it up myself to eliminate buzz. action is kinda high I guess, not optimal for shredding. I've messed with the truss rod and bridge height to lower action as much as possible without buzz, that's it. that was like a couple years ago though. since I got it it was geared up with 10-46's. standard tuning

thanks for any help!

[Mickguard]

any solution to this?  it's definitely not the nut because I JUST replaced it with an Earvana nut!!

←

If you've been able to play this guitar for three years, and it's only become impossible to intonate after replacing the nut, then I'd say, sure, suspect the nut.

Could be the nut slots haven't been cut properly and the string break is happening in the wrong place?

Have you tried replacing the old nut and intonating it?

If all else fails, you could possibly replace the TOM with a Badass style --they have a lot of forward/backward play, in addition to adjustable saddles. It's not certain the posts will fit into the TOM bushings though.

(edit: I just looked at a photo of the guitar...it's a string-through? well, you could possibly retrofit the badass. Still it seems unlikely that a guitar in this price range would have a basic intonation problem. Check your nut.)

[marksound]

yes I did have intonation problems before changing the nut.

Maybe you should start at zero and figure out why you were having problems to start with.

[Mattia]

Take the nut out of the equation. Capo on first, intonate on 13th. Make sure the strings are new.

[rhoads56]

the problem is the earvana nut. Remove it. They are rubbish anyway.

[SwedishLuthier]

the problem is the earvana nut. Remove it. They are rubbish anyway.

←

You are sooo out of line Perry. They might not be of your taste, but they are NOT rubbish. I have installed them of most of my guitars (including all of my personal), and I have not had one single customer that had me change back to an ordinary nut. And the guy had problems with the intonation BEFORE he installed the earvana nut!!!

BUT I would start this by removing the earvana nut anyway. How come

? Using an earvana nut makes end up with the saddles much more toward the neck than with an ordinary nut. If the bridge don’t intonate with an ordinary nut, there is NO WAY it will work with an earvana nut.

[iskim86]

the problem is the earvana nut. Remove it. They are rubbish anyway.

←

You are sooo out of line Perry. They might not be of your taste, but they are NOT rubbish. I have installed them of most of my guitars (including all of my personal), and I have not had one single customer that had me change back to an ordinary nut. And the guy had problems with the intonation BEFORE he installed the earvana nut!!!

BUT I would start this by removing the earvana nut anyway. How come

? Using an earvana nut makes end up with the saddles much more toward the neck than with an ordinary nut. If the bridge don’t intonate with an ordinary nut, there is NO WAY it will work with an earvana nut.

←

i think you guys are missing the point, the bottom three strings didn't intonate the day I bought it.

it might just be a lemon and I just might have to eBay it or something... which I don't want to cuz i love this guitar and played the hell out of it.

it doesn't intonate with the stock nut.

so replacing the s.i.c. generic stock bridge with a more solid Gotoh bridge wouldn't help at all, eh?

[Mickguard]

Tell you what, how about measuring your guitar --give us the exact measurements from the nut to the bridge saddles --

measure the extreme positions of both E String saddles --that is, the nut to saddle completely forward, and then the nut to saddle completely back.

I don't know much about the earvana --I'm guessing you still measure from the same place.

That measurement is going to answer a lot of questions. Seems unlikely they would have screwed up the bridge placement, but it's always possible.

You might also take a bunch of photos of the neck and guitar and add links here.

And you can also consider taking the guitar in to have a tech look at it. That'll cost you, what $40? You could always sell the earvana to pay for it.

PG ought to add a line in the sign-up FAQ to the effect that, if someone coming in asking questions, they should provide as much info as they possibly can.

[rhoads56]

You are sooo out of line Perry. They might not be of your taste, but they are NOT rubbish.

←

Fitted three of them. They dont work as well as a compensated nut. Sorry, i think they are a waste of time. If you want better intonation, why do a half a job?

[rhoads56]

If the bridge don’t intonate with an ordinary nut, there is NO WAY it will work with an earvana nut.

←

Correct. Remove the earvana, see if its better.

[rhoads56]

That measurement is going to answer a lot of questions. Seems unlikely they would have screwed up the bridge placement, but it's always possible.

←

You would be amazed how many CNC produced low end guitars dont have a bridge that is located correctly for even "standard" (roughly 9-42 / 12-52 sizes) strings.

[SwedishLuthier]

They dont work as well as a compensated nut. Sorry, i think they are a waste of time. If you want better intonation, why do a half a job?

←

Why the Earvana?

It’s the only system I know of that:

1 works for an amateur,

2 is reversible and

3 won’t cost you a fortune.

A Buzz Feiten retrofit cost you (at the only local, certified retrofitter that I can find prices for) 225 bucks while the earvana cost you 29.95. About a tenth of the cost!!! Of cause there are other ways of doing it than the Feiten system, but his is the most known. Do you use the Buzz Feiten system, or do you have a personal system? If so, would you like to share info about your better system?

Want one more reason?

That earvana can be adjusted for different string gauges by the user him/her self without costly visits to the local guitar tech (bad for me, good for my customers) and without special tuners.

And, yes the earvan nut look ugly as that warm place down below (and I don’t mean Australia, Perry), but it is definitely an improvement over a standard nut.

[SwedishLuthier]

I don't know much about the earvana --I'm guessing you still measure from the same place.

←

Not really the same thing. The set up is a little more complex. You actually move the nut towards the bridge. Measure from the start of the freatboard instead.

[iskim86]

Tell you what, how about measuring your guitar --give us the exact measurements from the nut to the bridge saddles --

measure the extreme positions of both E String saddles --that is, the nut to saddle completely forward, and then the nut to saddle completely back.

I don't know much about the earvana --I'm guessing you still measure from the same place.

That measurement is going to answer a lot of questions. Seems unlikely they would have screwed up the bridge placement, but it's always possible.

You might also take a bunch of photos of the neck and guitar and add links here.

And you can also consider taking the guitar in to have a tech look at it. That'll cost you, what $40? You could always sell the earvana to pay for it.

PG ought to add a line in the sign-up FAQ to the effect that, if someone coming in asking questions, they should provide as much info as they possibly can.

←

i'll post the full measurement when i get back home.....

[rhoads56]

Why the Earvana?

It’s the only system I know of that:

1 works for an amateur,

2 is reversible and

3 won’t cost you a fortune.

A Buzz Feiten retrofit cost you (at the only local, certified retrofitter that I can find prices for) 225 bucks while the earvana cost you 29.95. About a tenth of the cost!!! Of cause there are other ways of doing it than the Feiten system, but his is the most known. Do you use the Buzz Feiten system, or do you have a personal system? If so, would you like to share info about your better system?

Want one more reason?

That earvana can be adjusted for different string gauges by the user him/her self without costly visits to the local guitar tech (bad for me, good for my customers) and without special tuners.

And, yes the earvan nut look ugly as that warm place down below (and I don’t mean Australia, Perry), but it is definitely an improvement over a standard nut.

←

ok ok ok, you got me. Earvana's are OK...

This is what i use:

[SwedishLuthier]

OK,this is very interesting. Perry. Thanks for sharing. Are you doing it this way? I have considered trying it, but I thought that it seemed

1 complicated

2 very time consuming

Or have you developed a system with a preset shape, a “one size fits all”? It looks like you are using a shelf type extension on the nut. That also means that it will be reversible. BTW That looks much nicer than the earvana nut.

Have you done some side by side testing with earvana or Buzz Feiten? I'm VERY interested in the effect that this type of compensation will have on open cords. The earvana guys claim that their solution produce open cords in perfect pitch, and that is (of cause) simply not true. Better but not perfect. Never the less I have reached the conclusion (just like you) that a compensated nut is necessary. It would be interesting to know how you do it.

…oh-oh, I think that I’m hijacking this thread. Sorry, but I couldn’t help myself.

iskim86:

How are those measurements going? We also have the exact same problem, but the other way around in this thread. Some info on what to do BEFORE intonating your guitar in there.

[Mattia]

OK,this is very interesting. Perry. Thanks for sharing. Are you doing it this way? I have considered trying it, but I thought that it seemed

1 complicated

2 very time consuming

Or have you developed a system with a preset shape, a “one size fits all”? It looks like you are using a shelf type extension on the nut. That also means that it will be reversible. BTW That looks much nicer than the earvana nut.

Have you done some side by side testing with earvana or Buzz Feiten? I'm VERY interested in the effect that this type of compensation will have on open cords. The earvana guys claim that their solution produce open cords in perfect pitch, and that is (of cause) simply not true. Better but not perfect. Never the less I have reached the conclusion (just like you) that a compensated nut is necessary. It would be interesting to know how you do it.

…oh-oh, I think that I’m hijacking this thread. Sorry, but I couldn’t help myself.

←

Seems to me that once you work out compensation for a particular scale length/string set, you don't have to work it out every time. Doesn't seem terribly time consuming in the grand scheme of things. If you've got a selection of bone shims, it should take, what, extra half-hour to an hour's worth of setup time? Note that I haven't done this yet, but I will in the near future.

Consensus among those who've tried several systems is that they all work well enough. Helps, pretty much. Heck, Taylor shaves a hair off their fingerboards to add a touch of compensation.

[rhoads56]

swede, i'll pm you later with some info