Is This For Real?

[Guitarfrenzy]

ok ok ok....

for starters....

THE RADIUS IS IRRELEVANT TO ACTION, UNTIL YOU BEND A NOTE. Thats the ONLY time the radius matters, regarding the action of a guitar string.

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::crickets::

I absolutely agree. And I'm speaking from a player's point of view.

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And I just happen to absolutely disagree. I'm speaking from my own experience with playing, and setting up guitars. I've only played since I was 9 years old, played all over, am playing in two bands even now, but that doesn't have anything to do with why radius matters.. lol

First off, everyone should already know that radius matters even more when bending, that's a given. I'm not agruing that. I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just stating what I have noticed to be true about fingerboard radius and it's relationship with how low you can set action without buzz. Each time the flatter radius can be set lower, why is that? I then came up with a rational theory about it, but maybe I'm wrong, but I still believe that the radius effects the action you can get, even when not bending. Ah.. a nice healthy debate..

It's just good that we can all agree to disagree with each other and still get along..

Matt Vinson

[Mike Sulzer]

Mattia said: "To make this nice and extreme: Take a section of pipe, any pipe. Take a straightedge. If you run it parallel to the central axis, it'll lie there, on the pipe, niiiice and flat, along the entire length. Now try angling that straighedge a little bit, so it's no longer parallel. So it's like a guitar string on a fixed radius board. What happens: it won't lie flat, without gaps."

True, the gap between the string and the fingerboard (or staightedge and pipe) increases from the nut towards the bridge. But this is exactly what you want to happen anyway, and the radius of the fingerboard is just one factor that determines the height of the bridge saddle for each string. So there is no problem if there is no bending.

"Fact is, all guitar strings, when laid out normally, 'trace out' a conical path (compound radius) and not a cylindrical one (single radius). That's what a compound radius gives you: the arc of the fingerboard changes as you go up the neck."

I think that is a rally good way of understanding how the compound radius helps with bending.

[Gemm012]

True, the gap between the string and the fingerboard (or staightedge and pipe) increases  from the nut towards the bridge.  But this is exactly what you want to happen anyway, and the radius of the fingerboard is just one factor that determines the height of  the bridge saddle for each string.  So there is no problem if there is no bending.

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I don't see how that's what you want to happen. If I managed to get ahold

of a guitar that had the same low action at the first fret at all the rest of the frets without buzz, I'd hold on to it forever.

Galen.

[Mattia]

Mattia said: "To make this nice and extreme: Take a section of pipe, any pipe. Take a straightedge. If you run it parallel to the central axis, it'll lie there, on the pipe, niiiice and flat, along the entire length. Now try angling that straighedge a little bit, so it's no longer parallel. So it's like a guitar string on a fixed radius board. What happens: it won't lie flat, without gaps."

True, the gap between the string and the fingerboard (or staightedge and pipe) increases  from the nut towards the bridge.  But this is exactly what you want to happen anyway, and the radius of the fingerboard is just one factor that determines the height of  the bridge saddle for each string.  So there is no problem if there is no bending.

Thing is, the surface beneath the string isn't flat, and the distance between string and fingerboard doesn't increase evenly. Taken to the extreme, there's a 'hump' somewhere on the board that'll need to be dealt with by relief and setting the action. Ergo, you can't bring it as low as you could if it were. My feeling is that ideally, you control action by the height of the bridge/saddle, and by adding a tiny bit of relief to compensate for string vibration. On a theoreticaly level at least, single-radius guitars are fundamentally flawed beasts. In the real world, it doesn't really matter too much.

"Fact is, all guitar strings, when laid out normally, 'trace out' a conical path (compound radius) and not a cylindrical one (single radius). That's what a compound radius gives you: the arc of the fingerboard changes as you go up the neck."

I think that is a rally good way of understanding how the compound radius helps with bending.

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With bending AND action, IMO.

Mattia

[Mike Sulzer]

"I don't see how that's what you want to happen. If I managed to get ahold

of a guitar that had the same low action at the first fret at all the rest of the frets without buzz, I'd hold on to it forever.

Galen."

Galen, I think I am not saying what I mean very clearly. Since the string is angled, rather than running "straight down the pipe" on a constant radius fingerboard this provides part of the proper height of the action (gap between string and fingerboard increasing towards the bridge). This is something that does not happen with a flat finger board.

"Thing is, the surface beneath the string isn't flat, and the distance between string and fingerboard doesn't increase evenly."

Mattia, I will think about this, but it looks to me as though it does increase evenly to a very good approximation.