satch Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) Hi, My old Ibanez RG 570 needs some serious fixing. The wood around the tremolo anchor is really damaged, as you can see by the pictures. Another Picture 1 Another Picture 2 I've already sent this guitar to a so-called luthier, but he damaged the guitar more than he fixed it. Is there a way to fix this guitar or the only solution is to convert this guitar from a floyd rose type bridge to a fixed bridge ? Edited January 4, 2006 by satch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekul Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I think its time you pulled that old RG apart and ventured into the world of template making. Just take it all apart (remember where all the wires go, or take photos) and use the body as a template for some MDF templates. Use a flush trim router bit to make exact copies, write all route depths on the templates for future reference and get yourself some decent timber for the body. All your existing parts will fit right back into it, provided you take care to be acurate. I got a left handed RG that was about as beet up as yours and I used it to make some good templates. I used some brazilian mahogany for the body and it is great. It is currently being sprayed, now that I know everything fits. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 OMG! Is that a road kill, or what has happened? A new body will of cause fix this, but there might be an easier fix. Correct me if I’m misreading the pictures, but it looks like the wood is badly cracked in the spring cavity. It also looks like you’re so called luthier has tried to squeeze some white carpenters glue into those cracks (there’s something that reminds of smeared around glue in the bottom picture, at the right). First a question. Does those cracks affect the way the guitar plays and sounds? If not: Just leave it as it is. That is a serious advice. If I would do this job, I would remove all of the hardware and electronics. Then I would run the thinnest CA (Super Glue) into the cracks and clamp it tight with big, strong clamps, clamping cauls made to fit perfect and waxed paper to stop the cauls to get glued to the guitar. There is some risk that you will get CA in the control cavity through some of the holes in the cavity wall. Just fill the holes with paper towels or something similar to stop the CA from running out on the finish on front. You will have to clean this out later. Maybe someone else have a better idea for this part. When the CA is hard you have to address the original problem. Why is the wood crushed so badly? My guess is that the Floyd has been pushed hard against the cavity wall. Have someone been sitting on this guitar and by that pushing the Floyd all the way down? To prevent this you can remove some wood on the sides of the cavity. If you have a router, use it carefully. Also; if you are new to routing, practise on scrap. You can also use sharp chisels to remove any wood that might come in contact with the tremolo. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) I think its time you pulled that old RG apart and ventured into the world of template making. I thought about making a guitar body, but I don't have any experience working on woods. From what I've read, it doesn't seem an easy task. Especially, sculping the arm rest. First a question. Does those cracks affect the way the guitar plays and sounds? Yes, they affect. The bridge cannot be properly set up. Look at this other picture : Another Picture 3 The tremolo post isn't totally perpendicular with the body, so the intonation will not be perfect. Why is the wood crushed so badly? My guess is that the Floyd has been pushed hard against the cavity wall. To prevent this you can remove some wood on the sides of the cavity. Because the wood is very soft and dry and also because this is a almost 15 year old guitar. The luthier wanna-be damaged even more the guitar body. You cannot remove wood from this part. The walls are thin, so I would get even thinner walls and the cracks would reappear. Edited January 4, 2006 by satch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 the wood is very soft and dry and also because this is a almost 15 year old guitar. ← OK, that actually doesn't get me to understand more about the cause of the cracks. Does the tremolo hit the wals when used? If so you might need to remove enough wood to make a base for some patches that will reinforce the walls. If the main problem is the post for the Floyd, then it can probably be fixed by removing the bushing that the post is screwed into, drilling out enough wood to be able to fill it with good hardwood and then redrill for the bushing. If sculpting an armrest seems like a big job, I strongly recomend that you find yourself an experienced luthier that can have a look at your guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I'll have to guess some kind of stud post "repair" was already attempted, like maybe the bushing pressed back in, but the hole for it was made too tight during the "repair". Also looks like the post hole is going right through to the back of the body. Looks like a mess, but i consider it a "battle scar" . That body is probably good for another 15 years, with some repair to that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 The cause of the cracks was not the tremolo hiting the walls. The tremolo post become loose and after that the cracks started to appear. The holes through the back of the body were an attempt to solve the problem. When I saw that I couldn't fixed it, I have sent it to the guy how damaged even more the guitar body. After tha, I've performed the stud post repair, but since the wood is full of cracks, it didn't solve the problem. Maybe I'll try to perform the stud post repair once again, and like SwedishLuthier said, I'll try to apply some glue where the wood is really cracked. Can I use epoxy instead of glue ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzocchi705 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Epoxy is a type of glue. Making the arm rest is easy, you get the feel for rasps and spokeshaves realy easy. And your at the right place to get advice for it too. That cavity looks a mess, it realy does. I would say the best thing to to would be fill the cavity (theres a tutorial for this on the main site) again, then re route the trem cavity in the good new wood. Then you can just do a re-finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Epoxy is a type of glue. Making the arm rest is easy, you get the feel for rasps and spokeshaves realy easy. And your at the right place to get advice for it too. That cavity looks a mess, it realy does. I would say the best thing to to would be fill the cavity (theres a tutorial for this on the main site) again, then re route the trem cavity in the good new wood. Then you can just do a re-finish. ← Do you mean filling the trem cavity like the tutorial to turn the guitar to a fixed bridge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 So if I understand you correctly that wood have cracked out of old age. I dunno… Anyway, go ahead with the repair. I would do it the other way around thou. Starting with the crack repair will give you a better surrounding for the next step. CA (super glue) is the preferred glue for this job. It has very low viscosity and will flow/seep all the way into the very end of the cracks. This will close the cracks all the way, and not just at the surface. For the stud repair: Drill out a hole a bit oversized for the bushing (if it is a bushing and not a screw directly into the wood). Use a drill the same size as any hardwood dowel you can get your hands on (I would prefer maple for this). Glue the dowel n place and trim off any excess. Drill a new hole for the bushing/screw. This has to be done so that the hole is 100% perpendicular to the body’s face. A pillar drill is the right tool, but a handheld drill can be used if you are steady on hands. Practise if not. EDIT: I remember that Drak made a body out of almost rotten spalted maple and he used CA to get it stable. I think it worked out well, so CA is definitely the thing to use for those cracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 take that bushing out of there before soaking the wood with super-glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzocchi705 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Epoxy is a type of glue. Making the arm rest is easy, you get the feel for rasps and spokeshaves realy easy. And your at the right place to get advice for it too. That cavity looks a mess, it realy does. I would say the best thing to to would be fill the cavity (theres a tutorial for this on the main site) again, then re route the trem cavity in the good new wood. Then you can just do a re-finish. ← Do you mean filling the trem cavity like the tutorial to turn the guitar to a fixed bridge ? ← Yes, i do, if you do it as per the tut, but slightly wider, you can re-rout a new trem cavity that is stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 The closest I'd go to doing that, would be to rout out a rectangle on the back of the body, from the trem-block cavity to the middle or end of the spring cavity, then fitting a new rectangle of wood in there, but before that, I'd freeze everything already there in the damaged area up with glue (yeah might get mostly routed away in the end, but maybe not totally). And I wouldn't do the rectangle rout all the way through the body, but maybe quite close to it. Thinking out loud here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 The closest I'd go to doing that, would be to rout out a rectangle on the back of the body, from the trem-block cavity to the middle or end of the spring cavity, then fitting a new rectangle of wood in there, but before that, I'd freeze everything already there in the damaged area up with glue (yeah might get mostly routed away in the end, but maybe not totally). And I wouldn't do the rectangle rout all the way through the body, but maybe quite close to it. Thinking out loud here. ← Let me see if I get that. Are you saying that I should replace the wood from where the tremolo stud is located to where the tremolo springs are bolted into the body ? Or to replace only the wood where the tremolo post is inserted in the body, like SwedishLuthier wrote ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Might not make a whole lot of difference, but I was thinking it would "feel right" to put a new piece of harder wood in there, and why not have it run the length of the spring cavity, just to give the trem post a real good solid run of new wood to bear against. I think you probably know what I mean, as far as the size of the new piece of wood and where it should go. to put it another way : I guess if you use a spring cavity cover plate, it would hide the new piece of wood I'm talking about. It's just the idea I thought of from knowing the situation as much as possible from the pictures. I didn't sit and think for hours about it. It really is one of those things, where if it was a guitar I was working on, I could come up with several good ideas about how to repair it. Or I could come to the conclusion that my ideas are actually not that great. But, I certainly think you're better off to repair that damage than try to make a whole body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Just an aside: Jimmy Thackery's mongrel Strat "Mergatroid" has a chunk of bowling ball in the trem area. Here's a pic of the original and a copy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Man, that body is pretty screwed up, to say the least. I'd just convert it to a non-trem if you're really attached to the guitar and purchase another guitar, or find a new body for all the parts on it. RG bodies are a dime a dozen on the 'bay, or I'm sure you can get one made out of some higher-quality wood than the original basswood for a little coin. I don't think any repair you attempt is going to give you anything more than more problems. You can soak that basswood with CA all day long and it's still going to disintegrate in short order. It just looks way too far gone. Sorry bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggz Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 if u can get anything other than bass wood go for it, u fart near the basswood and it dints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 That post cracking problem can happen on any kind of wood. I know of it happening at least once on a heavy ash fender body. I know if someone gave me a body with damage like that, I'd fix it. (might put off doing it for the longest time, but still....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I want to buy another guitar, but I would also like to fix this one. I've learned to play to guitar with this one, so it's has some sentimental value to me. I've talked with a friend of mine that knows someone who fix and build guitars. I think I can trust this guy, because he used to work for Ibanez and he also has some reputation here in Portugal. Let's see if he has some solution for my problem. I will keep in touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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