Transparent Colors And Clear Coat

[slaytanic]

Im sure this has been asked a million times but Im too lazy to search through every thread trying to find it.

Anyway, I have some redwood veneer that I want to give a grey or black transparent finish or possibly a maroonish transparent, I have never done this before. I know theres a way to not screw it up, which is what I dont want to do. I want to try and avoid the trial and error thing if you know what I mean.

So, is there a certain type/brand of dye or stain that is recommended? Is there alot of sanding involved to make the grain stand out? Since it is veneer, should I be sanding on it at all? Should I wipe on stain/dye or spray it? Do I need to use some kind of sealer? Can someone give me some steps on how I go about doing this? Dont really know much about what kinds of clear coat to use either. So if anyone can recommend any types of stain/dye and clear coats it would be much appreciated.

[VanKirk]

Im sure this has been asked a million times but Im too lazy to search through every thread trying to find it.

There's no need to search through EVERY thread. Just the ones that contain the info you're looking for.

The search function can guide you to the answers you seek.

[lovekraft]

Besides that, it's been traditional around here that saying you're too lazy to use the search engine generally gets you zero respect from the people who are most likely to be able to help you - don't mean to tell you your business, but you aren't likely to get very far like that.

[thegarehanman]

lovekraft, you read my mind.

[slaytanic]

thanks for the rude replies. I did try the search enginge and maybe it just didnt tell me all of what I was looking for ,or maybe I just didnt see it. thanks anyway. IMO its easier for someone to just tell me a couple names of products and leave it at that. whatever though, not that big a deal, if noone wants to help out fine, by the way thanks for the hospitality.

Edited February 26, 2006 by slaytanic

[Racer X]

Rude? Ha. Dude, they were being rather gracious. First you say your are too lazy to help yourself, then you add insult to injury? You STILL want help, don't you?

[slaytanic]

Rude? Ha. Dude, they were being rather gracious. First you say your are too lazy to help yourself, then you add insult to injury? You STILL want help, don't you?

maybe you didnt see the part in my last post where I said I did do a search and didnt find all the answers I was looking for.

[wardd]

I'm also new to the board and not a great expert, but I have put transparent varnish on a few guitars.

My feeling has been to first do something to bring out the grain of the wood, tung oil, shellac etc. then get a good sealed and smooth base coat built up.

Then start adding the colored layers, first with only a small amount of tint then making each new coat a little darker as they build up.

I guess the best advice would be to first practice with test pieces until you get the result you want.

As far as products, I use Stewart McDonald Color-Tone stain which you can add to the varnish.

They are StewMac.com, I've called them on several occasions and gotten good advice, just ask for a tech person when you call. Plus, they are trying to sell you stuff so the politics are easier to deal with.

Good luck,

d ward

[slaytanic]

I'm also new to the board and not a great expert, but I have put transparent varnish on a few guitars.

My feeling has been to first do something to bring out the grain of the wood, tung oil, shellac etc. then get a good sealed and smooth base coat built up.

Then start adding the colored layers, first with only a small amount of tint then making each new coat a little darker as they build up.

I guess the best advice would be to first practice with test pieces until you get the result you want.

As far as products, I use Stewart McDonald Color-Tone stain which you can add to the varnish.

They are StewMac.com, I've called them on several occasions and gotten good advice, just ask for a tech person when you call. Plus, they are trying to sell you stuff so the politics are easier to deal with.

Good luck,

d ward

Thanks for the help bro. What would you recomend for a good base coat? Im assuming Stew mac sells all the products I need?

[Racer X]

Rude? Ha. Dude, they were being rather gracious. First you say your are too lazy to help yourself, then you add insult to injury? You STILL want help, don't you?

maybe you didnt see the part in my last post where I said I did do a search and didnt find all the answers I was looking for.

Oh, I READ it, but by THAT time, you had already said you were to lazy to try that (first thread), and in the beginning of the second thread, accused others of being rude. All before you stated that you tried searching, yourself. Sorry, but that is just Forum 101, anywhere. Anyways, what's done is done. I hope you get the answers you are looking for. Afterall, that's why most of us are here.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Racer X

[Duff Beer Man]

general rule of thumb around here, if you know its been asked, then search till you find. We dont like answering the same quesiton multiple times just because you dont want to take more then 5-10 min to search for it. Not only do we not like to, but a lot of us wont.

[wardd]

What I do is use the same clear varnish that will go in the tinted layers.

I've been using Stew-Mac's water based finish and they recommended a procedure where you first blow on thinned finish to build up a base coat then continue with the rest of the coats full strength.

It seems to work ok, but I've been noticing some very faint texturing in the finish as it ages.

Most likely due to the fact that by the time I get a project to the point of finish, I don't exactly follow the guidelines for time between coats, so I don't let each coat cure like it should.

i.e. I don't follow Fundamental Rule #1: Be Patient.

Probably as important as the other Fundamental Rule #1: Experiment first till you get it right.

Just for the fun of it, I did a search here for "transparent paint" and did manage to find some info and mention of tutorials on the subject. You should give that a try, you'll probably find some helpful stuff.

Also, try looking through the tutorial section via. the HomePage, there are probably article there too.

i.e. I am offering my 2 cents worth, but there are real experts here that could improve on it.

Here is another site you could try as well, it's dedicated to finishing.

http://reranch.august.net/

Be Cool,

d ward

[lovekraft]

...if noone wants to help out fine, by the way thanks for the hospitality...

Well, aren't you a piece of work! Rude, huh? How about assuming that your time is more important than that of others, so they should do the work finding the information that you need? Besides, I simply can't believe that you spent any real time searching, since a simple look at the section entitled Inlays and Finishing Tutorials & Reference would have immediately revealed LGM's pinned tutorials that would have answered at least most of your questions - go read them now, and in future, think before you start flapping your cake hole. You're probably not going to like this, but keep in mind, DIY does stand for Do It Yourself. If you have specific questions, no problem, but if you expect anybody to rehash a general overview of everything that's been posted on finishing around here, you're sadly mistaken! There's a very low tolerance for tantrums on this board.

[Duff Beer Man]

Lovekraft your a badass

[Drak]

You have several things working against you.

The choice of wood (veneer) you have selected is a poor choice to do the kind of 'look' you want to achieve.

Redwood is VERY VERY porous, which means that once you apply any dye or stain, it's gonna soak it in like a sponge, and I -do- mean like a sponge.

Any Redwood should pretty much be done natural, so if you're going Redwood, stay with clear finishes.

BTW, it will soak in finish like a sponge too.

To go the other route, to do a dyed finish, choose another type of wood much more suitable for what you want to do.

Long story short, you can't get to where you want to go with the material you have, without a ton of hassle anyway.

On top of the fact that I don't know if you know how to apply veneer properly, which is like grabbing a cat by it's tail to begin with.

Sounds like an uphill battle to me, I would choose some different alternatives to give yourself some more guarantee of success and satisfaction for your efforts.

Hope that helps.

[slaytanic]

You have several things working against you.

The choice of wood (veneer) you have selected is a poor choice to do the kind of 'look' you want to achieve.

Redwood is VERY VERY porous, which means that once you apply any dye or stain, it's gonna soak it in like a sponge, and I -do- mean like a sponge.

Any Redwood should pretty much be done natural, so if you're going Redwood, stay with clear finishes.

BTW, it will soak in finish like a sponge too.

To go the other route, to do a dyed finish, choose another type of wood much more suitable for what you want to do.

Long story short, you can't get to where you want to go with the material you have, without a ton of hassle anyway.

On top of the fact that I don't know if you know how to apply veneer properly, which is like grabbing a cat by it's tail to begin with.

Sounds like an uphill battle to me, I would choose some different alternatives to give yourself some more guarantee of success and satisfaction for your efforts.

Hope that helps.

Thanks man, I didnt realize that redwood was so sensitive, I guess thats why I have only seen natural finishes on guitars covered with that stuff. Ill keep that in mind. I read the tutorial on applying veneer so hopefully I wont screw it up. Thanks again.

[wardd]

Here's a link to a veneer tutorial on the PG site in case you missed it.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/veneer.htm

[slaytanic]

...if noone wants to help out fine, by the way thanks for the hospitality...

Well, aren't you a piece of work! Rude, huh? How about assuming that your time is more important than that of others, so they should do the work finding the information that you need? Besides, I simply can't believe that you spent any real time searching, since a simple look at the section entitled Inlays and Finishing Tutorials & Reference would have immediately revealed LGM's pinned tutorials that would have answered at least most of your questions - go read them now, and in future, think before you start flapping your cake hole. You're probably not going to like this, but keep in mind, DIY does stand for Do It Yourself. If you have specific questions, no problem, but if you expect anybody to rehash a general overview of everything that's been posted on finishing around here, you're sadly mistaken! There's a very low tolerance for tantrums on this board.

Tantrum, what the hell are you talking about? I guess the lack of being able to see emotions in just words can make you judge me like you did. I didnt mean to ruffle any feathers here. I thought the questions I asked were pretty specific. I cant see how I can make them come across more clearer. Just to justify. I did read through some of the tutorials, but not all. There were things that maybe I just didnt see like I stated before. Hence the whole reason I made my first post. You dont believe me? Not my problem. I could care less if you believe me or not. The pathetic thing is, I see all kinds of people here asking questions that have probably been asked before and I dont see one flame towards them. What your deal man? Is this how you treat all the new guys? And rude, yes I think you are and for someone that is a moderator of a forum I would expect you would be respectful for the sake of this site. The attitude you have shown me has me questioning the mentality of the people running this site. the flapping the cakehole thing almost had me laughing. Thats a good one. Go ahead and keep flaming me if thats what makes you feel good about yourself. I guess thats what guys like you do behind thier computer when its not face to face huh?

Here's a link to a veneer tutorial on the PG site in case you missed it.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/veneer.htm

Yea I read that one a while ago, I like the step by step of that one, really goes into detail.

Thanks man.

Edited February 28, 2006 by slaytanic

[marksound]

Im sure this has been asked a million times but Im too lazy to search through every thread trying to find it.

I don't see a problem here. That line makes me want to drop everything and look up a bunch of answers.

[slaytanic]

ok that was a wrong choice of words. Like I said, I have looked and havent found all of what I was looking for.

What I meant by my post was in the questions I asked was for some personal experience directly related to the questions I asked. I never said anyone had to look anything up.

By the way, a couple nice guys have helped me out on a few things and thanks to them I can go forward. All the rest of the information I found.

Please no more flames.

[Duff Beer Man]

...if noone wants to help out fine, by the way thanks for the hospitality...

Well, aren't you a piece of work! Rude, huh? How about assuming that your time is more important than that of others, so they should do the work finding the information that you need? Besides, I simply can't believe that you spent any real time searching, since a simple look at the section entitled Inlays and Finishing Tutorials & Reference would have immediately revealed LGM's pinned tutorials that would have answered at least most of your questions - go read them now, and in future, think before you start flapping your cake hole. You're probably not going to like this, but keep in mind, DIY does stand for Do It Yourself. If you have specific questions, no problem, but if you expect anybody to rehash a general overview of everything that's been posted on finishing around here, you're sadly mistaken! There's a very low tolerance for tantrums on this board.

Tantrum, what the hell are you talking about? I guess the lack of being able to see emotions in just words can make you judge me like you did. I didnt mean to ruffle any feathers here. I thought the questions I asked were pretty specific. I cant see how I can make them come across more clearer. Just to justify. I did read through some of the tutorials, but not all. There were things that maybe I just didnt see like I stated before. Hence the whole reason I made my first post. You dont believe me? Not my problem. I could care less if you believe me or not. The pathetic thing is, I see all kinds of people here asking questions that have probably been asked before and I dont see one flame towards them. What your deal man? Is this how you treat all the new guys? And rude, yes I think you are and for someone that is a moderator of a forum I would expect you would be respectful for the sake of this site. The attitude you have shown me has me questioning the mentality of the people running this site. the flapping the cakehole thing almost had me laughing. Thats a good one. Go ahead and keep flaming me if thats what makes you feel good about yourself. I guess thats what guys like you do behind thier computer when its not face to face huh?

Here's a link to a veneer tutorial on the PG site in case you missed it.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/veneer.htm

Yea I read that one a while ago, I like the step by step of that one, really goes into detail.

Thanks man.

Knowing lovecraft, you prolly just bought yourself a two week vacation....

[lovekraft]

Knowing lovecraft, you prolly just bought yourself a two week vacation....

No, that wouldn't even be right! Besides, he has a point, he simply doesn't have a clue about how what he said looks from this side, so let's clear the air.

Slaytanic, I'm sure you're simply reacting to what you perceive as disrespect directed at you - what you don't know, since you've only been around here for all of a week, is how fed up with the "I'm too lazy to search, just tell me!" attitude many of us are, having been subjected to it ad nauseum over the last few eons. Any post that begins, "Im sure this has been asked a million times but Im too lazy to search through every thread trying to find it" is likely to push buttons around here. Having been apprised of that, in what I thought were fairly gentle terms, you immediately complained about how you'd been abused. At that point, at least from where I sit (hiding behind my computer, as you so diplomatically put it), you were simply another outraged noob who didn't like what he was hearing, and I've really had about my limit of that. If I was less than charitable, you were equally less than diplomatic - I'll be happy to apologise for the manner in which I spoke to you, provided you admit that the gist of what I said shouldn't have been cause for you to get defensive in the first place. As for your personal characterisations of me, damn, you must know me really well! Everybody around here already knows that I'm a power-mad megalomaniac who lives to torment the unwary and the weak!

I'm a big boy, and I can take whatever you have to say about me without retribution - however, just in case you missed that little brown badge under my name, I must warn you that if you decide to question Brian's intelligence again, you might very well find yourself in read-only land for a while. Beyond that, welcome to the forum - you and I don't need to have any further problems!

[Maiden69]

The attitude you have shown me has me questioning the mentality of the people running this site.

I like when people generalize...

I must warn you that if you decide to question Brian's intelligence again, you might very well find yourself in read-only land for a while.

+1

Brian, and any of the admin or mods!

The main problem was the way that you reacted to the ones telling you that you needed to spend more time searching rather than asking... If you had posted

ok that was a wrong choice of words

this from the begining, everything would had been different.

Don't take this as a flame because it is not, just take it as advise. Once you spend some time here asking peoples questions, you will understand.

[wardd]

Guys,

Jeez Loueeze, enough already.

There has got to be a better way to do this.

Please, see my post on helping new members.

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...t=0#entry255706

Give me some other ideas from an established members point of view.

Be Cool,

d ward

[Southpa]

Give me some other ideas from an established members point of view.

Its all common sense. Shouldn't have to pin the rules up in everyone's face. The primary function of this forum is an information resource for building guitars. Believe me, everything pertaining to the subject has pretty much been said by now. OK, I know there is still lots of BS to sort thru. As an example I did a search for "holly". Half of the posts that I got were from all those numbnuts who can't spell the word "holy", as in , "Holly crap! Thats a nice finish!" We've been thru this more than once. If you want to see how things work on the extreme end, go make a few posts at MIMF and I'll bet you will be thankful this forum exists.