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Posted

Ok guys, I have a new idea for a project and I hope it can work because I am sooo broke hehe

I found these guitars, called Douglas Hornets for $130 US and its basically a neckthru King V guitar.

Check it out here Douglas Hornet guitars

So I was planning on buying it, stripping the paint, filling the top pickup cavity with bondo or something, and applying a quilted veneer on the top, and so that would make it cool, one hum stringthru neckthru V for less than $200..

Heres what I am concerned about, I was thinking of putting a dimarzio X2N in it, but due to the bodywood being so cheap, I am ASSUMING its going to sound like **** regardless of what pickup I put in, so it really makes me reconsider even doing this project.. Do you guys think it would sound bad because of the main bodywood?

I was also considering doing what I said in my last thread, about cutting the sides off and glueing on my own shape, that way I can have it to my comfort specifications, and the new wood might be better for sound hopefully lol

What do you guys think about this?

Thanks

Also.. What if I put a EMG 81 in the bridge? would that make it abit better? I've heard before that active pickups don't deal so much with the tonewood, so it would be more the pickup rather the tonewood.. Is this just a rumor or sound somewhat true?

Posted

Ok guys, I have a new idea for a project and I hope it can work because I am sooo broke hehe

I found these guitars, called Douglas Hornets for $130 US and its basically a neckthru King V guitar.

Check it out here Douglas Hornet guitars

So I was planning on buying it, stripping the paint, filling the top pickup cavity with bondo or something, and applying a quilted veneer on the top, and so that would make it cool, one hum stringthru neckthru V for less than $200..

Heres what I am concerned about, I was thinking of putting a dimarzio X2N in it, but due to the bodywood being so cheap, I am ASSUMING its going to sound like **** regardless of what pickup I put in, so it really makes me reconsider even doing this project.. Do you guys think it would sound bad because of the main bodywood?

I was also considering doing what I said in my last thread, about cutting the sides off and glueing on my own shape, that way I can have it to my comfort specifications, and the new wood might be better for sound hopefully lol

What do you guys think about this?

Thanks

Also.. What if I put a EMG 81 in the bridge? would that make it abit better? I've heard before that active pickups don't deal so much with the tonewood, so it would be more the pickup rather the tonewood.. Is this just a rumor or sound somewhat true?

I can't comment on too much here, but I do know that active pickups sound very similar regardless of the guitar.

Posted

First off, I don't buy the 'wood = tone' idea for solidbody guitars. Sure, there's a slight influence, maybe, when the guitar's unplugged. But when you're talking about putting metalhead pickups into a guitar (and I'm assuming you're going to match that with the standard metalhead ultra-processed effect/amp sound), then any wood is pretty much going to do the job.

Besides, basswood is used for a lot of guitars, and especially Asian-built metalhead guitars, and plenty of high-end guitars too.

So I wouldn't worry about that part.

Second, by the time you get done stripping the paint, filling the cavity, putting a veneer on there, refinishing the body and changing the pickup (you're going to want to change those tuners too, and maybe the bridge too eventually), you'll have pretty much doubled the price of the guitar. At least. So I can't see how that can be worth it, since it's going to remain a cheap guitar.

On the other hand, it's a set neck guitar, so you could do the wings idea sure. But you're stuck with that neck.

Having bought a couple of cheap guitars for similar purposes, I can pretty much tell you I'm cured of that--they're cheap guitars, no matter how you cut 'em up.

My take: if you like this body shape, just buy this guitar and leave it as is. Maybe you'll even like the pickup ...as I suggested, if you're going to process it through various metalhead pedals, these pickups will pretty much sound like any other....especially if you're going to be wailing away at more than 90 dB (of course, you do wear hearing protection, right?)

Posted

First off, I don't buy the 'wood = tone' idea for solidbody guitars. Sure, there's a slight influence, maybe, when the guitar's unplugged. But when you're talking about putting metalhead pickups into a guitar (and I'm assuming you're going to match that with the standard metalhead ultra-processed effect/amp sound), then any wood is pretty much going to do the job.

Besides, basswood is used for a lot of guitars, and especially Asian-built metalhead guitars, and plenty of high-end guitars too.

So I wouldn't worry about that part.

Second, by the time you get done stripping the paint, filling the cavity, putting a veneer on there, refinishing the body and changing the pickup (you're going to want to change those tuners too, and maybe the bridge too eventually), you'll have pretty much doubled the price of the guitar. At least. So I can't see how that can be worth it, since it's going to remain a cheap guitar.

On the other hand, it's a set neck guitar, so you could do the wings idea sure. But you're stuck with that neck.

Having bought a couple of cheap guitars for similar purposes, I can pretty much tell you I'm cured of that--they're cheap guitars, no matter how you cut 'em up.

My take: if you like this body shape, just buy this guitar and leave it as is. Maybe you'll even like the pickup ...as I suggested, if you're going to process it through various metalhead pedals, these pickups will pretty much sound like any other....especially if you're going to be wailing away at more than 90 dB (of course, you do wear hearing protection, right?)

You're right, it will remain a cheap guitar, but if you end up making it that much better and actually really enjoy playing it, there's no loss in that.

Posted

For me personally, I think wood is very much tone. I find body woods such as alder, ash, basswood and mohogahy very different indeed and I find rosewood and maple extremely different but not so much with ebony... I heard a squier not long and the plywood changes everything. Its orst than garageaband. But to get ultimate tone, wood is not of importance nor pickups. Its the combination and how much of good parts you have. Take them with point for example...plywood = 1 point and koa = 10. Seymour = 5 and Sadowsky = 7. Stuff like like. Get me point? So basically you can make your own chart and count up the point to see if reaches a certain limit to see if it is good or not. Maybe there should be a chart on this forum as a point system hmm...(raising eyebrows)

Posted

well take in mind there are different grades of wood, im assuming this is cheap basswood, not basswood similar in Jems.

Also, No, I am not really going to play it thru a "metalhead" rig, I just was considering an EMG because I heard active pickups bypass most of the tonewood and take on a sound of their own, I would love to have a x2n in there, but mixed with cheap basswood, im very skeptical

I would probably not change the bodyshape, because I will just wait to build my custom guitar for that shape, this shape is ok, it has the high back end I need for playing while standing so I can manage.

Certain items work better with others, so that point chart would not work.. like Duncan pups with a maple body, would sound alot better than duncan pups in a basswood body, and so forth.

Posted

Ditto...everything Mickguard said. In a lot of ways bolt ons are more fun to play with ideas in the long term...you can use the same neck and hardware for any number of bodies gaining experience and fashion with evolution.

This one is interesting in that it has 24 frets and the hardware may suit, but as Mickguard said, what is the neck like...this is the thing that most influences playability and your enjoyment of the instrument. Beware of mail order...you don't know what they will send you (quality) and cna add a lot to the price. Also consider, if the guitar is this much new...how much do you think something of similar quality going to cost secondhand. SH also has the advantage in that if the thing was going to twist or anything, it will have done!

I bought a cheap acoustic recently...I went through a few of them before I found one that had the potential to be adjusted to my liking...some couldn't even play above the 12th fret on a cutaway guitar. But I found one that plays really well with a change of strings and a little lowering of the action at the bridge. Now I know I will get more enjoyment and play better, and so it will "sound" better than something costing more than twice as much from tonewood (instead of ply) that has a high action and wont stay in tune enough even to play slide!! It will sound better, because I will play it better...fact.

However, all wood and particularly construction techniques have a bearing on "tone"...light weight softwood like basswood really seemed to suit the whole shredder thing. I like the idea of light guitars. As for ply...while there is a solid block guitars like 335's have a ply top and back and are coverted...so ply can be good right? Plexiglass, looks cool so who cares about the tone. Aluminium has got an interesting tone! Masonite anyone, works for page!!!

Anyway, It is a good enough candidate for giving it your "treatment" I guess. At least the neck, bridge and pickup routes and string through are all done for you. If you must fill in the neck pickup route...use some wood. Pickups are only a part of the story, with the right combination of wood and amp tone, these pickups may be great. An EMG is probably going to cost more than the whole guitar!!!

Have you ever heard of the infamous "lightning bolt" scandal...this would be a good candidate to make one of these... cut the upper wing off and reverse it and reattach back to front...fooled rick neilsen who bought one as a collector's item thinking it was a prototype of part of the explorer/V/moderne series of vintage gibsons...hahahaha...top$

pete

Posted

I'd think the density of the wood would have far more impact on the tone than the species of wood...but of course that's all related.

Still, by the time you send the guitar through an amp and turn up the gain, the influence of the wood itself has to become pretty minor.

Posted

As I say about my cheapo strat too...once you have a sustainer, the last thing you have to worry about is sustain...hehehe...who cares what it's made of, as long as it plays alright...

And of course if you are a blues player, you can play it on anything and it's all funky character kitch!! :D

But I don't really agree...my les Paul has a completely different sound (particularly it's attack and sustain curve and harmonic content) to my strat...there are lots of different reason for it but the least of them is probably the pickups...still, enough distortion covers a multitude of sins...

Kind of like a pickguard does for guitar construction faults, B) now there's a tone robber...perhaps if there were less pickguards and more flamed veneer, we'd have more "tone" on this forum.... :D

pete

Posted

I definitely believe in the 'wood = tone' thing ... I learned years ago to try an electric unplugged first. If it doesn't sound good that way it won't sound good with any kind of pickup. That said, I don't think basswood is all that bad a tone wood. It sounds a lot better than poplar and I've heard some pretty nice sounding basswood guitars. I'd be more comcerned about how many pieces there are at that price.

And at that price I'd be way more concerned about the neck and fretboard than pickups too. Especially if you want it for high gain playing ... it's critical with a lot of distortion that the intonation be spot on and having electric style saddle adjustment isn't good enough. For that you need a level fingerboard, which is a gamble with guitars you can't sight the neck of, and pristine, level, well crowned frets. You also need a neck that goes into controlled relief properly.

You may get decent fretwork for $129 but I'd be shocked. Many cheap guitars have flat fret tops from a levelling grinder if they're level at all. Give it a try if you like but myself I'd plan to budget for a fingerboard levelling block and a fret file before getting pickups.

Posted

There is different grades of wood, im almost positive that would not be the same basswood used in a Jem for instance, just as theres tons of alder types, and etc

Certainly. But it's not like you're paying for a grade of basswood that rivals with plastic. The builder probably used more ply's of basswood making the guitar.

Posted

There is different grades of wood, im almost positive that would not be the same basswood used in a Jem for instance, just as theres tons of alder types, and etc

Certainly. But it's not like you're paying for a grade of basswood that rivals with plastic. The builder probably used more ply's of basswood making the guitar.

Nick I was looking at the guitar and noticed that it is a set neckin the description, not a through neck. I don't know if that makes any difference to your plans. I'm guessing the basswood sounds fine.I built one of those Saga "prs" kits with a basswood body and it sounds great.

Posted (edited)

its not ply, i have a douglas and its real wood, just a 3 peice body

Yeah, those are real wood, as are SX basses and Agile guitars, both of which seem to have a pretty loyal following. Most people consider them 'fixer-uppers'. If you want something the plays really well, be prepared to do some fretwork. You might end up swapping the tuners and bridge, too, but I'd wait until you got the guitar to see.

As far as tone and pickups, I don't think you'll go wrong. Remember, DiMarzio has an exchange policy. If you try the X2N and hate it, you can exchange it for something else. Honestly, I'm in the 'tonewood skeptics' camp for solidbodies. I think the density and weight of the body has something to do with the tone and sustain, but I don't get hung up on species. Also, no one has mentioned the neck's contribution to the sound. Which do you think vibrates more freely, the body or the neck?

Fill in the front pickup rout if you must, but then you're committed to refinishing the guitar. You won't notice any change in tone from filling it, so I'd leave it as is... a little variety never hurt anyone. If you want to do it for aesthetic reasons, I understand... making something look cool is a powerful urge, so if you have to do it then good luck.

As for chopping off the body, don't do it... it's just too much effort. You might as well buy a Carvin neck-through and start from there. It would be about the same amount of work.

Edited by fookgub
Posted

Buy it and tear it up! It'll be a good project for you to work on building up some real skills.

It's never going to sound like a $2,000 Gibson. It just won't. As long as you realize that, grab the sawzall and have some fun!

Posted

Nice guitar for $200 or the start of part of a guitar for $200 this thing would cost a fortune if he wants to build it from the ground up, and i think the monetary aspect is what appealed to him originally.

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