drpossehl Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I am making a replacement mahogany body for a 65 Epiphone Newport bass that I bought cheap ($25 with original case). The neck is also mahogany if that mackes any difference. The original neck joint is shaped like the pocket of a bolt on neck. I am not concerned with being able to remove the neck in the future. I have a good tight fit. Should I go with 2500 pound epoxy, or titebond, or gorila glue, or what? I normaly lean tword epoxy for strength, but the joint is tight and most of the epoxy would be squeezed out. Please set me straight. Thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 You're thinking is correct about the tight joint. Epoxy is not designed to be used in situations where you have as tight a joint as possible and wish to use the least amount of glue as entirely possible. Gorilla glue is typically meant for joining woods to other things like metals, etc. Titebond is your best bet. There are a lot of builders on this site, and almost all of us use titebond 1 to glue in our set necks. I have yet to hear of any of the builders here having a problem with their necks coming unglued. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Might add that wood glue makes a physical and chemical bond with the wood fibres where epoxy would be purely physical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Also....if you ever DID want to remove the neck, for whatever reason, you could still steam it out if you use Titebond. Not so with epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Epoxy isn't very heat resistance. It could still be removed. You just might end up doing a little more damage to the surrounding wood as opposed to using wood glue. However, that's not to say I advocte epoxy for neck joints. Guitarguy: titebond makes a chemical bond? i've never heard that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarageRocker Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Go with Titebond. Gibson used an aliphatic resin glue when they made the bass, it may not have been Titebond brand but it was the same type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 for actual structural glueing,. etc. on a guitar I never use anything BUT titebond. The ONLY time I use epoies and stuff is for filler and that kind thing. But any actual GLUING... titebond all the way. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpossehl Posted March 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Thanks a million guys for your quick responding. Later,Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 How did you think titebond worked? Of course the bond is 'chemical'. Anyway, what them folks said. Titebond will be more than fine enough. Epoxy where you need gaps filled (for example complicated headstock breaks with missing wood) or where you're gluing dissimilar materials (ie, graphite to wood or something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Can't say that's something I give much thought. Obviously the bond is molecular, but when I hear "chemical," I guess I suddenly think of a chemically hardened adhesive such as epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Beer Man Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 i never use titebond on my neck joints. Titebond creeps with the changing of the seasons, i use a resin based glue that has to be mixed with water. Its brown and comes in powder form then mix with a little of water and its good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 i never use titebond on my neck joints. Titebond creeps with the changing of the seasons, i use a resin based glue that has to be mixed with water. Its brown and comes in powder form then mix with a little of water and its good. Jaros guitars uses a glue that sounds like what you're describing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Urea-formaldehyde glue. This said, Titebond creep is entirely negligible for all manner of electric guitar neck joints. It creeps in shear, but those joints aren't under shear, so it's a bit of a non-issue. It's also got diddly to do with season; it's merely a slightly 'plastic' glue. IIRC, Jaros uses the glue for body glueups and the like, but millions (literally) of guitars assembled with titebond and similar yellow PVAs prove it works just dandy. Titebond joints also give you a nicely clear/invisible glue line when done well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Guitarguy: titebond makes a chemical bond? i've never heard that before. Read it somewhere, fine woodworking mag i think but i could be wrong. Ill see if i can find it. Its the reason why wood glue doesn't hold well to metal or other non wood items. Edit: Didn't take long to find it. The best of fine woodworking: Basic skills and techniques 2005 "Mechanical adhesion: When two boards are clamped together, wet glue flows into the pores of the wood. When it dries, the hard fingers of glue lock the boards in a weak union." "Chemical adhesion: Positively charged hydroxyl groups on the wood's surface are attracted to the negatively charged carbonyl groups in the yellow glue in a process known as hydrogen bonding. This is the main force that makes yellow glue a strong adhesive." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 titebond makes a chemical bond? i've never heard that before. It is only "chemical" if there is a compound in the glue that reacts with a compound in the wood to form a new compound (reactants -> products). Instrument wood is probably 6% H2O, few% oils (depending on the wood), and cellulose for the rest. I think it penetrates and permeates the grain and pores down to very small scales, then cures....I think it is still essentially a mechanical thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 down to very small scales, then cures....I think it is still essentially a mechanical thing. That was my thinking as well. It's awefully difficult to reverse a chemcal reaction with only heat...but it's awefully easy to remove a glued in neck with a heat gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sulzer Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 All strong glues use the electrical forces between molecules. There is no other way. You can call it chemistry if you want; chemistry could be defined as the study of the many many ways the electrical forces among atoms and molecules behave. Epoxy is not designed to be used only in situations where you have to fill a gap. Its mechanical strength is great enough so that you can use it this way. It works fine with very thin layers, too. How could it not? The adhesion is molecule to molecule. A thick layer filling a space requires the glue to have mechanical strength as well as adhesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 All strong glues use the electrical forces between molecules. There is no other way. You can call it chemistry if you want; chemistry could be defined as the study of the many many ways the electrical forces among atoms and molecules behave. Epoxy is not designed to be used only in situations where you have to fill a gap. Its mechanical strength is great enough so that you can use it this way. It works fine with very thin layers, too. How could it not? The adhesion is molecule to molecule. A thick layer filling a space requires the glue to have mechanical strength as well as adhesion. Blame fine woodworking.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianOC Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 So what is the benefit / advantage of Titebond over Gorilla Glue? I am just about to start building my first guitar and have a small bottle of the Gorilla glue. I just wanted to know what to watch out for. Please advise. Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Titebond's tried and tested, no visible glue line if done well (Gorilla pushes the pieces apart). Glue's cheap, and should be fresh when used. Don't skimp. I use polyurethane glues when gluing dissimilar materials (graphite to wood, f'r isntance), but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 (edited) I was just thinking about glue today. I build bows, and I use 2 part glues. Smooth on, This is used for FIberglass/wood lamination, and Urac the brown st uff you guys mention in the first page for all wood lams. These two glues are ideal for bows. It gets expesive. Im glad to hear tight bond will work, I really dis like mixing up 2 part glues. ( messy ) Also the brown powder stuff you mention is just ground up walnut shells. cheers. Chris. Edited July 29, 2006 by jipp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 So what is the benefit / advantage of Titebond over Gorilla Glue? I am just about to start building my first guitar and have a small bottle of the Gorilla glue. I just wanted to know what to watch out for. Please advise. Thanks, Brian Exactly what Mattia said. Gorilla glue is best when used for gluing dissimilar surfaces (i.e. gluing wood to metal, plastic to wood, etc.). Titebond is GREAT for gluing wood to wood, you can't top it for the price you pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Long as we're talking glues . . . I've been using the LMI instrument makers glue, and love the stuff to death. When I need epoxy, (real oily woods or some gapfilling type thing) I've been using the Smith All Wood Epoxy which I also love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipp Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Long as we're talking glues . . . I've been using the LMI instrument makers glue, and love the stuff to death. When I need epoxy, (real oily woods or some gapfilling type thing) I've been using the Smith All Wood Epoxy which I also love. Intresting. I wonder if it works or just sales pitch. can you really tell the diffrence? chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP63 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I think you would need a glue that dried hard. Epoxy doesn't. It dries tough but not hard enough to transmit sound like Titebond would. Just like glass is harder than steel, but not stronger. I think Titebond covers both. As far as creeping through the seasons, that might be the wood itself. My Rickenbacker needs tweaking throughout the year. They just do that. They are very sensitive to humidity. No biggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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