Daniel Sorbera Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Some time in the near future I wan't to do an archtop. Is there any specials tools/jigs/advice you guys recomend to make building one easier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardd Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Godin, I have a book on building acoustics that has a good section on an arch top builder, real famous guy just can't remember the name and I've loaned out the book. I have worked with violin making in the past and with them you need to thickness the top and back according to a pattern with the center being thicker and tapering to thinner at the edges. Again, with the violins you first bend up the sides and form them on a jig. Since the wood never bends exactly the same each time, you then form the top and back to match the way the sides came out. Not sure about an electric arch top? Anyway, with the above, thumb planes and scrapers would be important as well as a thickness guage, plus the jig / mold for making the sides. I've been wanting to try a 335ish project myself sometime in the future. Be Cool, d ward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Define what you mean by 'archtop' first, though; we talking ES-style semis, Benedetto arched tops, or just a carved top that's hollow? If it's the Jazzbox/Benedetto you're wanting, I'd get myself a copy of Benedetto's book, and go from there. Archtops are acoustics, and as such the only thing building electric guitars will help you with is the ability to make a neck. No more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlrhett Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Define what you mean by 'archtop' first, though; we talking ES-style semis, Benedetto arched tops, or just a carved top that's hollow? If it's the Jazzbox/Benedetto you're wanting, I'd get myself a copy of Benedetto's book, and go from there. Archtops are acoustics, and as such the only thing building electric guitars will help you with is the ability to make a neck. No more. I agree with Mattia. Having tried my hand at electric/flat-top acoustics/carved archtop I can tell you that each is its own science and uses very different tools and jigs. For example, you may want a carving spoon or finger plane to build an archtop. A useful jig for a flat-top acoustic is a 24" diameter dish with a 25ft radius dome carved into the top. I think the Microplane patern "sander" is a great tool for shaping electrics. I don't know how I would use any of these to build the other types of guitars. I can suggest that if you are looking for an electric guitar with a hollow body (ES-355, for eg) you may want to look at some of the laminate body kits out there. Acme-archtops.com sell laminated fronts and backs and pre-bent sides. Most people who want a true archtop try to carve the top and back for a much better acoustic tone. But if you mostly are going to plug it in, a laminate top is a good way to go. The glue up, internal bracing and neck have more in common with an acoustic build than an electric, but you would be much closer to a guitar if you start with a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Since the wood never bends exactly the same each time, you then form the top and back to match the way the sides came out. Um.... not according to *anything* I've seen. You start out with a design, you bend the sides and shape the top to fit that design, and then you glue them togther, so they hold that shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted April 8, 2006 Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 Since the wood never bends exactly the same each time, you then form the top and back to match the way the sides came out. Um.... not according to *anything* I've seen. You start out with a design, you bend the sides and shape the top to fit that design, and then you glue them togther, so they hold that shape. He's right you know - it's virtually impossible to get your rib structure perfect, so the top and back are adjusted slightly from plans if required to provide the correct overhangs. It's only minimal, but that's the way it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 As far as carving tools and such, do yourself a huge favor and do your first carve on a mockup piece of Basswood. Carving is an art, it is not so much about the tools you use, it's more about you spending the time just getting your own experience doing it, you do it long enough, and the tools that you prefer will become obvious to you, everyone has their own way and their favorite tools. A lot of the tools I read about I would never use, and some I use others would never use, you just gotta learn to hack your own path out of the forest, it's sheer experience and time spent learning what you prefer and what you don't, what seems to work for you and what doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 As you know there are many ways to go about most building tasks. Drak makes a great point about carving being a real learned art from practice. Instead of describing tools and technique. I did a quick search and found a couple sited that have some nice pics that will help more than my yapping. nice page another and again one more Not Archtop- but I always thought it was a clean web page Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarchump Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 has any one tryed using a vacume press to make an arch top instead of carving it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted April 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 (edited) huh? what now? How on earth could one use a vacum press to shape wood? Edited April 17, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 It's done by laminating multiple pieces of thin wood(maybe as thin as veneer?) over a mold and putting the whole setup into a vacuum bag while the glue's still wet. At least, that's how I believe it's done. I think myka might have done an archtop like that. Look for his burl veneer archtop. Obviously this method requires that your carve be gradual so the wood can more easily conform to the male mold. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarchump Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Well i have a friend who makes longboard decks and he uses a vacume press on 1/8 inch ply wood laminated and he can make crazzy bends and curves with it. so i was thinking with two 1/16 inch wood tops i could make a foam mold of the profile of the arch top then soat the tops and then place it in the bad and vacume press it into shape and add some appoxyto bind the 2 layers together. Does this eem doable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think you're headed in the right direction, but I would be weary of using foam for the plug. I don't know what kind of pressure the vacuum bags exert, but I'd be worried it's enough to crush the foam. I'd carve a top out of a mahogany billet and use that. Mahogany is easy and consistent to carve. You could use the mahogany plug as many times as you wanted, so it's not really a waste of wood. If you feel like experimenting, I'd be interested in seeing how extreme of a carve you could get the veneer to conform to. my $.02 peace, russ EDIT: I wouldn't use epoxy to bond the two veneers together. Epoxy requires a certain thickness to be functional. With a vacuum bag, you'll get a lot of squeeze out and you might lose the strength of the epoxy. Regular Titebond I is a much better bet. If you're planning to dye the top, it might be wise to spray a wash coat of laquer or poly on the backside of the top layer of veneer to avoid having the glue soak into the full thickness of the veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I believe gibson's ES models are done that way, aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 If you want something to carve, use basswood. Cheap, readily available, easy to carve, if a little 'fuzzy' at times. Also, exposy should work just great with vacuum bagging. You'd need a lot (and I mean LOTS) of pressure to create a bond failure with epoxy, and I doubt 1 atmosphere of pressure is going to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarchump Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'm not talking normal foam im talking about the blue or pink stuff thats used for insulation. It works very well for molds for longboards which tend to have harsher curves then the arch top. I'm not talking normal foam im talking about the blue or pink stuff thats used for insulation. It works very well for molds for longboards which tend to have harsher curves then the arch top. and about epoxy sorry i would be using titebond 3 to bond the wood i was thinking about using people using firber glass on longboards for a second haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlrhett Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 has any one tryed using a vacume press to make an arch top instead of carving it? Uh, MOST commercially made archtops are made this way. A trully carved archtop is a rare instrument and usually runs in the multiple thousands of dollars. Bent vaneer tops and backs is what I was referring to as "laminate" guitars in my earlier post. There are literally dozens of threads on how to laminate a top over on the MIMF forum webpage. Everything from how to make the molds to what kind of glue to use. Check it out, its a great resource. To me, going through the trouble of making a laminate top is like spending hundreds of hours to restore to factory perfection an old Honda Civic. Laminate tops are cheap to mass produce, but if you are going to spend a couple of hundred hours (not to mention $$) making just one guitar do it right and carve. Of course, be prepared to waste a lot of wood. Tops and Backs are carved from 1" wood to end with a 1/8" top! Sometimes it hurts to see a piece of spruce that would yield enough tops for 4 guitars be whittled away to just one guitar. 1" bookmatched quartersawn spruce (2" if you resaw your own) and matching figured maple is not cheap. Good luck, and be sure to post the final project here so we can all see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarchump Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 hudreds of hours? and alot of money? My friend got a vacume press that you can use a hand pump to suck the hair out and it cost kin like 60 buck canadian and you can order different sized bags for not alot of money. For the mould all u need to do is sepend a few hours carving a piece of blue or pink insulation foam..... I dont see where the 100's of hours go... my question is if anyone has ever done it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 People do it. David myka does it when he wants the tone of one wood, but the look of another on his archtops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlrhett Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 hudreds of hours? and alot of money? My friend got a vacume press that you can use a hand pump to suck the hair out and it cost kin like 60 buck canadian and you can order different sized bags for not alot of money. For the mould all u need to do is sepend a few hours carving a piece of blue or pink insulation foam..... I dont see where the 100's of hours go... my question is if anyone has ever done it... Have you ever built an acoustic guitar? Maybe if you build one you will see where the hours go. Ever bent sides? Carved braces? Carved a heel block? Carved a bridge or tailpiece? Kerfed linings? If you want to build an acoustic archtop and slap a $60 laminate top on it, be my guest. In any case, I don't know how to be any clearer with the answer. Yes, people have done it. It is done all the time. Usually by large Tiwaneese factories because it is cheap and produces a barely acceptable acousic tone. Check MIMF to see many threads discussing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarchump Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Making an archtop top shouldnt take you 100's of hours when using a vacume press. the whole instrument could possibly take that long. My whole question is asking if any one has tryied it and what it was like. I can see that the tone wouldnt be that great but i thought it might be a neat experiment before i take on a project of using carbon fiber. Im going to try to make really thin and light guitars just to see what i can come up with and maybe see if adding carbon fiber to a neck really adds a whole lot of strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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