Fleetdog Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I want to wire 2 humbuckers to a 3-way switch and 3 on/on switches. The 3-way selects bridge/both/neck. Here comes the weird part. The 3 on/on switches (in a Jaguar plate) will each corespond to one position on the 3 way and control tapping. To put it another way, if the bridge only is selected, one switch will control if it is tapped or not. If both pups are selected, the middle switch will select between all 4 coils and outer coils only. If the neck is selected, the 3rd switch determines if it is tapped or not. I know I could get all these sounds and more with only 2 switches but I really like the idea of basically programming each possition on the 3 way with the Jag switches. I drew up one design for this but it taps by leaving the circuit open on unused coils rather than shorting them, which I read can lead to excessive noise. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Is your 3-way like a tele 3-way or like a gibson 3-way? Are your on/on slide switches single or double pole? You want your 3-way to not only select pickups but also select one of 3 tap switches... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Well, this is what I came up with - and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it looked a lot like yours I couldn't get away from using a DPDT switch for the middle position, no other way I could figure out how to get the tap without affecting the other two pickup positions. The single pickup taps only need to be SPST. The middle position tap does leave one of the coils unconnected. Although some may disagree, I wouldn't consider it to be a major problem as far as noise goes because: o Fender's 4 way mod does this with the bridge pickup and I've never heard any noise complaints. o Tapped single coils frequently are wired in this manner to select the desired hot lead. o You're using humbuckers which are usually better shielded than single coils. Depending on how far you mount the switch plate from the pickups and pickup selector, you might need to be more concerned how to route all the wire. If it is not real close together, you might want to consider multiconductor shielded cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 (edited) That actually doesn't look much like mine but I think I'm going in a rather unorthodox direction with the wiring right now. The only thing I don't like that I see in your schematic is that you are tapping the south coil on each pickup. I would like to tap the outside coils (south on bridge/north on neck). What do you use to draw your schematics? I have been modifying schematics I find in Photoshop but it's not very good for drawing them from scratch. I'll post my idea as soon as I draw a decent version of it. As for the switches, tele 3 way, 2P2T on/on sliders, 3 way selects a pickup combination and one tap switch to control the selected pickup(s). Your assumptions were spot on! Edited April 20, 2006 by Fleetdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 The only thing I don't like that I see in your schematic is that you are tapping the south coil on each pickup. I would like to tap the outside coils (south on bridge/north on neck). While I could get the single pickup selections to work by grounding the series link and knowing that pickup was selected, I couldn't get it to work for the both pickup position since I needed both poles for the pickup selection and had none left over for a ground reference for that selector position. Unorthodox or not I'd love to see how you resolved this and kept all three split selectors isolated... so don't forget to post!! One benefit of schematics is that they have no assumptions unless labeled, and since you didn't specify splitting any particular coil I didn't assume. That would be a decision made at wiring time for me. Your assumption on the other hand is that a specific polarity of coil needs to be connected to ground. Not true. If you follow the manufacturer's normal wiring recommendation than that is what you might wind up with. For example... Duncan says to connect the red and white wires together for the series link, take the hot output from the black wire and ground the green. This will place the south coil closest to ground. However, if you connect the black to the green for the series link, take the hot from the red and ground the white, you'll now have the north coil closest to ground. The pickup will be in the same phase with no difference in sound because of the opposite coil connection. A series connection is a series connection regardless of the physical ordering of it's parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 So what do you use to draw your schematics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 So what do you use to draw your schematics? It's a homebrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Here it is. I connect the bottom of the south coils directly to ground and the top of the north coils directly to the hot output. The 6 switches then determine what (if anything) the other end of the outside coils are connected to. The key here is to treat a humbucker as 2 pickups rather than 1 with a center tap. Of course, I'm not sure if this will cause me any sort of interference or noise but I think it's worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Ok... I see. Good diagram. I like it because you don't have to run as many wires to or from the coil tap switch plate. Hmmm.... If you use what I said about the order of the coils not making a difference and combined that with your schematic, then this would be possible: By not having to wire the bridge differently from the neck just to select the desired bridge coil with the tap switch, then the bridge coil that could always be hanging from one end is eliminated. And by connecting the unused position of the pickup selector to the output, the hanging unused coils are shorted to themselves when they are not needed. NO hanging coils and no possibility of interference from them. And if I counted correctly, one less wire to route to the tap selector switches... because there is no longer any need for an output wire connection to tap the desired coil on the bridge pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 I finally get what you're saying! I didn't read your bit about changing the order of the coils in the serries. I thought you were just reversing the + and - putting one humbucker out of phase. Now that I understand what you were saying, I think the last schem you posted is the winner. Now I just need to buy some parts and actually assemble this axe! Thanks a lot for your help Joe. You'll probably spot this project as it moves along on telemodders but I'll be sure to post about this wiring specifically here when I get to try it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 You're more than welcome, Fleetdog. Hey... don't forget the pics!! I wanna see how you routed the wiring! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted April 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 My pickups arrived today and gave me a bit of wire routing inspiration. The leads off these are 4 conductors sheilded together with one ground. I'm going to use these leads to send everything to the control cavity first. Then if I can get my hands on more of this wire, I'll run 2 strands of it to the tap switch cavity. One bundle for each pup, 1 conductor tied in with the ground sheilding to supply ground for tapping, 2 going from the 3 way switch to the middle tabs of the tap switches, the last, supplying the other middle wire from that pup. I think that would be easier and cleaner than chopping the leads off short to try and use the shortest leads possible (which would probably be unshielded) by sending a couple leads straight to the tap switches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 My pickups arrived today and gave me a bit of wire routing inspiration. The leads off these are 4 conductors sheilded together with one ground. I'm going to use these leads to send everything to the control cavity first. Then if I can get my hands on more of this wire, I'll run 2 strands of it to the tap switch cavity. One bundle for each pup, 1 conductor tied in with the ground sheilding to supply ground for tapping, 2 going from the 3 way switch to the middle tabs of the tap switches, the last, supplying the other middle wire from that pup. I think that would be easier and cleaner than chopping the leads off short to try and use the shortest leads possible (which would probably be unshielded) by sending a couple leads straight to the tap switches. Yes, much easier to send the pickup wires to the control cavity first. If I counted correctly... I count 6 wires (and of course at least 1 ground) - 3 wires each per pickup... that would be routed to the tap switches. This seems to match up with what you said. Before you start mounting pickups whip out the VOM and measure the continuity of all 4 coils. The pickup I received last week had an open coil so now I am waiting on a replacement. You don't want to find out something like this after you have everything wired up. While you're at it... and I just took your word for it before... verify that the polarity of what will be your outside coils is as you expect. After I thought about it, it seems a bit unusual for the outside coils to be of opposite polarity for "normal" humbuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 A simplier alternative to north/south coil tapping with less switches: Either half of the coil is effectively shorted through S1 or S2. S3 is a typical 3 way toggle pickup selector switch and S1/S2 are on/off/on switches with the middle position giving full humbucker mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Thanks mammoth, but I think you missed my point a bit. I'm building a tele with humbuckers and I just thought it would be fun to add the 3 switch plate off a Jaguar that would basically let me program each possition of the pickup selector to either be tapped or not. I'm using 4 switches to get 6 sounds. This could easily be achieved with the 3-way and a single mini-toggle or push-pull pot (or even a 6-way rotary switch). I just wanted to make something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 A simpler alternative... Gotta agree on this one - different may be, well, different, but simple is always my preference, especially if you actually have to perform with the guitar - just my too sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Thanks mammoth, but I think you missed my point a bit. I'm building a tele with humbuckers and I just thought it would be fun to add the 3 switch plate off a Jaguar that would basically let me program each possition of the pickup selector to either be tapped or not. I'm using 4 switches to get 6 sounds. This could easily be achieved with the 3-way and a single mini-toggle or push-pull pot (or even a 6-way rotary switch). I just wanted to make something different. I got it, just trying to provide some additional info for the group as others may want to do something similiar. You could use the 3rd slide switch for an acoustic bridge pickup set or to disable the tone control for stronger mids or enable a bass cut control etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Gotta agree on this one - different may be, well, different, but simple is always my preference, especially if you actually have to perform with the guitar - just my too sense! +1 A good rule of thumb is if you have to flip/push/pull more than two switches to get a certain sound, it's too complicated for stage use. Even more so if you're mashing a footswitch at the same time. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAArthur Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 +1 A good rule of thumb is if you have to flip/push/pull more than two switches to get a certain sound, it's too complicated for stage use. Even more so if you're mashing a footswitch at the same time. Mike +2 Fleetdogs approach complicates wiring for stage simplicity. He can preset his tapping preference. As an example, he can move from bridge full, to both split, to neck full just by using his pickup selector. Mammoths approach simplifies guitar wiring for stage complexity. Using the same example as above, three switches would need to be flipped each time to move from bridge full, to both split, to neck full. Everything has trade-offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleetdog Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 (edited) Joe nailed my intent there. Set the coil tapping switches between songs then pretty much just use the pickup selector durring a song. Now I just need a band so I have oportunity to perform. ...oh, and I just think that little switch plate looks cool. Edited May 4, 2006 by Fleetdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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