Jsn7821 Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 (edited) Hi everyone, I am working on a guitar that I designed (kind of a cross between a les paul and a PRS, on a budget). Ash body, Walnut/ash neck. I will post pictures up later. Heres my question - my neck pocket is not perfect, but its not bad, but there is a tiny bit of wiggle. I'm ready to glue it in. What glue should I use? Some kind of epoxy? Would Titebond III work better? Another question, I used Titebond III to glue the fretboard to the neck. Good? Bad? Edited April 22, 2006 by Jsn7821 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Stick with titebond original, and avoid titebond II or III. There have been several annecdotal cases of glue failure with II and III, and none of their extra features are helpful in guitar construction. You'll most likely be fine leaving anything already glued up with III alone, but I would stop using it and switch to original from now on. As for thec neck pocket, that's your call. If you think you can get veneer shims in there which will make it tighter, do it. If the fit is tight enough that shimming is impossible then you're probably fine to glue it up as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Stick with Titebond I (original). II and III don't dry as hard, and creep more. What's done is done, but keep the bottle for outdoor DIY stuff, and away from guitars. As for the neck pocket, I'd probably glue some veneer in, and sand until it's a nice, tight fit. Zero wiggle. Heck, I want my necks to be press fit, not even slide in under their own weight. Not forced, but pushed in. If it's that tight, titebond original works very well (and is what I use), but epoxy would work well, and fill any small gaps. There's pretty much no chance of ever getting that out again if you use epoxy, though; I've seen people remove Les Paul necks on occasion, but honestly, it's always looked like more work than it's worth, so that wouldn't stop me from using epoxy if I felt it was warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwigeo Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Hi everyone, I am working on a guitar that I designed (kind of a cross between a les paul and a PRS, on a budget). Ash body, Walnut/ash neck. I will post pictures up later. Heres my question - my neck pocket is not perfect, but its not bad, but there is a tiny bit of wiggle. I'm ready to glue it in. What glue should I use? Some kind of epoxy? Would Titebond III work better? Another question, I used Titebond III to glue the fretboard to the neck. Good? Bad? If the neck is loose try and shim it. Glue for fretboards....white glue best as its easier to undo the joint with a bit of heat. Fretboards dont last for ever and your fretboard is going to have to come off at some stage. LMI white glue is good....I use Selleys PVA here in Australia. Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 If the neck is loose try and shim it. Glue for fretboards....white glue best as its easier to undo the joint with a bit of heat. Fretboards dont last for ever and your fretboard is going to have to come off at some stage. LMI white glue is good....I use Selleys PVA here in Australia. Cheers Martin I'd disagree about fretboards not lasting forever - there's no reason why they can't. A great many turn of the century instruments still have their original fretboards, and I'd guess that of all the guitars around the world seeing regular use, maybe 5% have had the fingerboards removed at some point, if that. That said, I use epoxy to attach my fretboards, since the moisture in titebond caused backbow when I used it. Epoxy is just as easy as whiteglue to separate with heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwigeo Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I'd disagree about fretboards not lasting forever - there's no reason why they can't. A great many turn of the century instruments still have their original fretboards, and I'd guess that of all the guitars around the world seeing regular use, maybe 5% have had the fingerboards removed at some point, if that. That said, I use epoxy to attach my fretboards, since the moisture in titebond caused backbow when I used it. Epoxy is just as easy as whiteglue to separate with heat. Hi Setch, Yes some luthiers use epoxy on their necks but to me its like using a sledgehammer to knock in a nail. White glue does the job quite adequately and leaves you the option of undoing the joint. Epoxy is also alot harder to clean up than white or yellow glue.... From my experience reversing a white glue is easier than undoing an epoxy joint....more chance of taking wood with you when you part the joint with epoxy. Youve obviosuly had more luck than me with epoxy joints. I've never had problems with backbow after gluing on a fretboard.....the only time backbow has been an issue with me is after frets have gone in. Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I've been using yellow carpenter's glue (stuff called Probond) for 3 guitars so far. No complaints here. Its water washable, ie. wipe up with a damp rag and doesn't creep as much as white glue. I've thought about hide glue as its quite widely used but seems to be more applicable in acoustic, violin, etc. building and repair. I was listening to a friend talk about his glue pot fire one day. Seems like a lot of trouble to deal with when you can just grab a bottle and go SQUIRT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I've never had issues with plain 'ol titebond (I have yet to meet a white wood glue that I like/that dries nice 'n hard) for fingerboards, no backbow to speak of. If I used epoxy for fingerboards (I do not like epoxy much..messy stuff), I'd probably go for some cheap 5-minute stuff that should come off more easily than, say, top-grade West Systems or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 In my experiance (but not on guitars) 5 minute epoxy just isn't worth the hastle. I prefer using proper epoxy and just clamping it for longer. For gap filling, I've got some of the glue that they (apparently) stick the chassis of the Lotus Elise together with. Gap filling, strong as hell and fairly good on creep. Paid about £35 for the glue (50ml), glue gun and mixer nozzles. They also used this stuff as a nut lock on the London Eye. Just been speaking to my dad who just minutes ago, nearly managed to glue himself to a canoe paddle. I say nearly because he glued himself to his t-shirt instead. He was trying to wipe the epoxy off his hand, another bad thing about 5 minute epoxy, too easy to glue yourself to something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I use devcon 30 minute epoxy to attach my fretboards, and for my grain filling. The extra working time is great, and it's sandable within 24 hours (you could probably sand it sooner, but sanding 'green' epoxy exposes you to the risk of sensitisation - v.bad news ). With such a large gluing area a 5 minute epoxy is perfectly fine for attaching fretboards, but I agree with Tone monkey about using it for anything more structural - invest the extra time and use slow curing epoxy. I've never glued myself to anything with epoxy, but it does have aremarkable gift for 'travelling' - even small batches seem to find there way onto my forehead, up my arms etc, in a way that CA or titebond don't imitate at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I too have never had a problem with bow using regular Titebond to glue the fingerboard to the neck, but I've also only built probably one neck that didn't have CF rods either. That might be the reason I haven't had that problem, but so far so good. I understand that some of you guys have had that problem before, and we've even discussed it here many times. I think that epoxy is great for gluing a fingerboard in place though, and have thought about switching over to it, just for it's shear strength. I wouldn't advise anyone to use it on their first couple of builds though, since the removablity is much better with Titebond. Then again, if you know what your doing, and have a lot of experience building, use epoxy, because you want it to last and it shouldn't have to be taken apart again. I met an old man who builds guitars, and he only used epoxy to hold the neck of his acoustic guitars to the body, and it's been ok for over 5 years now. Although, I definitely wouldn't recommend someone doing that, it just goes to show you the strength that epoxy has. Here's a picture of his guitar that I took from that visit. BTW, it's one of the best sounding, best playing acoustic guitar I've ever played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 One more time ( ) : Epoxy is just as easy to soften with heat as yellow glues like titebond or probond. I've done both, and there was *no* difference in difficulty. On a joint with hidden surfaces, like the neck, epoxy may be tougher, but on an easily accessable joint like fretboard to neck it's no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwigeo Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 One more time ( ) : Epoxy is just as easy to soften with heat as yellow glues like titebond or probond. I've done both, and there was *no* difference in difficulty. On a joint with hidden surfaces, like the neck, epoxy may be tougher, but on an easily accessable joint like fretboard to neck it's no different. All comments appreciated Setch and taken on board. Its horses for courses I guess. Im happy using white glue and youre just as happy using epoxy. The great thing about luthiery is there are as many different ways of doing things as there are luthiers! Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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