Design Questions

[motus]

I've read a bunch about different woods and everything that could affect tone but i'd like opinions from people who have actually used some of these parts

so here goes:

I'm trying to build something that's alive, something that vibrates.. to play pretty much every style of music.

something that can handle modern and vintage sounds

It has to twang, handle rockabilly, matamp/orange stoner/doom metal, frisell type jazz.

Body shape will be similar to a les paul , thinner at the bottom end and top and slightly smaller with a slighty sharper horn.

I've heard a lot about Swamp ash bodies and Rosewood necks.. so i have been thinking about getting a chambered swamp ash body , top wood will be a species of rosewood ( I know it might hurt in the metal side of things, but i'm not exactly looking to cover death metal gallop too often )

pickup configuration will most likely be SSH , something like.. a p90 in the neck, RWRP noiseless strat in the middle and a bridge humbucker like a dimarzio dual sound ( super distortion with parallel, series and split switching ) but that's not important yet

For a long time I wanted to have a headless guitar, with a steinberger tremolo, but availability and price made me look at a kahler 2200 series cam tremolo

so , has anyone had any experience with chambered swamp ash and rosewood necks, what about adding an ebony fingerboard? and what about the rosewood top , it won't be that thick so it might not dampen the highs that much..

I would really appreciate your opinions..

Thanks

[azn_guitarist]

rosewood neck you mean maple neck and a rosewood fretboard.

[motus]

rosewood neck you mean maple neck and a rosewood fretboard.

no I mean solid rosewood neck ..

palisander probably

[azn_guitarist]

ok, never heard of that before

[George Brown]

the only guitars i know of that feature a solid rosewood neck are

PRS Mcarty Rosewood

PRS Modern Eagle

PRS 513

but im sure various ither people have done it, i cant realy comment on rosewood necks as iv never played one but good luck with the project and welcome to the forum

[motus]

www.kleinelectricguitars.com

bill frisell has one with a basswood body and rosewood neck, I think that's the one he uses in his 'educative video'

and a rosewood neck needs no finish and feels smooth ( from what i've heard )

[SwedishLuthier]

The fender Rosewood telecaster was all roewood, chambered body, neck and fret board. unfortunatly I've ever had an oportunity to listen to one, so I cannot say anything about the sound

[motus]

http://www.indoorstorm.com/product_info.php?products_id=3196

Anderson Hollow T Classic, Color:"Natural Rosewood" , rosewood top on alder, rosewood neck.

[Mickguard]

so here goes:

I'm trying to build something that's alive, something that vibrates.. to play pretty much every style of music.

something that can handle modern and vintage sounds

Sorry, I keep getting this image of cooking...a teaspoon of maple, a pinch of rosewood, add in a cup of mahogany...stir... like you're trying to bake the perfect cake

As for a guitar for pretty much every style of music, well, my belief is that most of that really depends on you, the amp you use, and what pedals you use.

[motus]

I guess, but right now i'm playing through a tremolux... I wouldn't want a guitar that sounds lifeless and sterile

Edited May 21, 2006 by motus

[Myka Guitars]

motus, I have used rosewood for necks on my electrics quite a bit. I love the tone and liveliness that it adds. It has somewhat of a focusing effect on the hihger end and with the right piece of rosewood the harmonic content fo the tone is amazing; it will sing. I have had great success with single wood bodies and a rosewood neck with an ebony fingerbaord. If you were to use rosewood for the top I might suggest making it 1/4 " thick or less to allow the body wood to come through more. If you use swamp ash or somethign similar you will have an amazingly resonant guitar. Cocobolo is one of my favorites for necks.

~David

[motus]

I've been trying to find the difference between east indian rosewood and palisander rosewood, it seems a lot of sites that talk about wood tone seem to think one is the other ..

east indian is darker and palisander is brown.. correct? and from what i have read palisander adds sparkle and sizzle

and cocobolo sounds interesting , how do you finish a neck using cocobolo? i've read that the dust is toxic and irritating.

PS . great looking guitars

[Myka Guitars]

This might help:

East Indian rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia)

Palisander (Madagascar) rosewood (Dalbergia baronii)

To me I think Indian rosewood rings out much lower and with less clarity than Palisander rosewood. Indian has more of an open grain and is less dense. I bought some Indian rosewood for necks but never chose to make anything with it yet. I prefer the other rosewoods to it. It really comes down to the individual pieces of wood however. Even within the same species you find considerable variation. But in a general way rosewood sounds like rosewood.

Cocobolo, like the other rosewoods, does not need to be finished. The dust can be an irritant to some people but that is only when you are working with the wood.

~David

[Daniel Sorbera]

My first guitar was a mahogany/bubinga semi hollow with a cocobolo neck.

I think the best word to describe the tone is "thick".

It is deffinitly mid heavy, and classic rock overdrive sounds come through great. It also sounds very complex played clean. Not as "dry" as maple, much more interesting sound (but this could be also due to the mahogany/bubinga body. I have only heard cocobolo on this one guitar).

There's not much bad I can say about it, except it's weight, it's very heavy, and this might throw off your balance if your body isin't heavy also. It's also much harder to carve compared to maple. I think it feels great as a neck. The finishing is really easy because you don't have to put any finish on , just sand up to really high grit and your set.

All IMO and tested only on one guitar so take this with a grain of salt.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Godin SD

[Don Ramsay]

To stir up further discussion...

I have seen a number of Rosewoods available:

-Palisander Rosewood

-Indian Rosewood

-East Indian Rosewood (Black Rosewood)

-Brazillian Rosewood (Rio Rosewood or Bahia Rosewood)

-Honduran Rosewood

-Macassar Rosewood

-Madagascar Rosewood

-Bocote (Mexican Rosewood) (I have one guitar neck of this wood on a Walnut body...love it!)

In addition, in the genus "Dalbergia", there is also:

-African Blackwood Rosewood

-Cocobolo

-Kingwood

-Tulipwood

The list is so extensive, it seems confusing which would be considered the best "tone woods".

I also found the following references:

"Brazilian rosewood is (was) a popular wood for guitar fingerboards, and acoustic guitar backs and sides. However, due to its protected status (now close to extinction) and spiraling prices, Indian and Madagascar rosewood are being used extensively in its place."

And:

"The timber trade will sell many timbers under the name 'rosewood' (with an adjective) due to similarities in figure."

Palisander is mentioned above as a favorite. I hope so, because Warmoth is asking $699.00 for this one-piece neck:

http://www.warmoth.com/showcase/sc_guitar_...kWood_filter=23

Wow!

Who knows?

Don

[Mickguard]

Who knows?

Warmoth's marketing department?

[Doeringer]

It has to twang, handle rockabilly, matamp/orange stoner/doom metal, frisell type jazz.

Not trying to tell you what kind of guitar to make... but I find when a guitar handles a range of styles and sounds like you have described, it does none of them exceptionally well. Think, "jack of all trades...Master of none"

Just a suggestion but maybe try to just make the best twanger... or the best metal screamer you can. OR narrow your quest to just a couple of the styles, (Twang & Billy) (stoner and Doom). Any way, good luck and keep us posted on the progress.

Terry D.

[motus]

well, I just want something that can handle older styles as well as cover some modern settings

like complex cleans... I don't really want the shrill 80s metal sound.

but in a high gain setting, the pickups seem more important than the wood ( ? ) ... so I thought the dual sound was a good choice... until i hear it in the guitar that is

[motus]

okay , I have a few questions about finishing , instead of just starting a new thread i'll ask here

I was reading about danish oil, it is a good option to finish the top ? and what about the ebony fretboard , how should i take care of that ?

same with the swamp ash back.. would danish oil be sufficient? if i don't stain it do i need to fill it's pores?

[Mattia]

okay , I have a few questions about finishing , instead of just starting a new thread i'll ask here

I was reading about danish oil, it is a good option to finish the top ? and what about the ebony fretboard , how should i take care of that ?

same with the swamp ash back.. would danish oil be sufficient? if i don't stain it do i need to fill it's pores?

Danish oil and/or Tru oil make nice finishes. But..not high-gloss type finishes in the traditional sense. If you want a warm, woody look, oil is a great way to go. For an electric, I don't believe finish type affects tone as long as it's applied properly (ie, not absurdly thick coats of poly). Staining and pore filling are completely different issues: if you want a smooth finish, you MUST pore fill, and for swamp ash, pore fill quite a lot. If you don't mind seeing the grain (I don't, on oiled guitars, or on necks; never fill those except in the extremely rare event they get a gloss lacquer-type finish instead of oil or shellac), don't fill.

Ebony fretboards don't need any treatment. Just sand to something fine and buff with an old t-shirt or something. Ditto rosewood boards. I don't oil any of them, and those who do use specially formulated fingerboard oil (check your guitar shop, or StewMac), NOT a drying/finishing oil like Danish Oil.

[Doeringer]

Lemon oil for fret boards. Gives a nice glow and make the shop smell spic & span!

[motus]

Thanks for the answers

http://www.gilmerwood.com/images_after05-0...-07-05W7335.jpg this is the wood i plan on having for my top ( called bois de rose , some pieces are darker and closer to purple than red but this is the color i plan on having )

I believe that's wax at the end , would tru oil or danish oil give me this tint ?

and how rough would swamp ash be after sanding without filling it's pores

[Mattia]

Thanks for the answers

http://www.gilmerwood.com/images_after05-0...-07-05W7335.jpg this is the wood i plan on having for my top ( called bois de rose , some pieces are darker and closer to purple than red but this is the color i plan on having )

I believe that's wax at the end , would tru oil or danish oil give me this tint ?

and how rough would swamp ash be after sanding without filling it's pores

Um, you want to rethink that, if you're hoping it'll stay anywhere near that colour. Bois d'Rose, traditionally, goes pretty much jet-black within a few months of working. Makes it a favourite fingerboard wood for many for precisely that reason:

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....ose+Fingerboard

I've got more references for you if you like, and I'd do a test piece to see if, on the off-chance, some sort of finish with UV inhibitors (would be a poly) would help maintain that colour. Don't know what it does under finish, because I've mostly only seen it used in fingerboards.

[motus]

http://images.google.ca/images?svnum=10&hl...mer&btnG=Search

I think it depends on the original color , some of it seems darker than others

I don't really know to be honest.. haven't thought this through, thought a good finish would protect the wood.... but since i don't have any equipment to spray with it has to be simple to apply

Edited May 26, 2006 by motus

[Mattia]

Nowhere near all finishes will prevent darkening, and even if it stays a little purple for a while, it could end up very, very black after a year or two. You're building for the long term, anyway. Pretty much every picture in 'bright purple' from that google image search is fresh wood.