Titebond vs TitebondII

[daveq]

This was started in another topic concerning body blank joining. The issue of glue types came up and it was said that TitebondII may not be a good choice. To sum it up for those who don't have time to read everything - Titebond (original) is not any better at avoiding "creep".

I asked the manufacturer about this and got some interesting info. The first message was in reply to my question concerning "creep" associated with TitebondII:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Titebond II. Titebond II creates a

strong bond, but not one that is rigid or brittle. Titebond II can creep if

the glue line is under a long term high load. This creep could be

aggravated by high temperature and or a thicker glue line. A thicker glue

line would have less strength and be more capable of movement. The

recommended service temperature for Titebond II is between -20°F and 120°F.

At temperatures around 150°F, Titebond II can begin to soften and lose

strength. We would not expect a guitar assembled with Titebond II to creep

while stored in good conditions. I hope this information is helpful to you.

The next is the reply I got when asking if using Titebond (original) would help prevent the "creep":

Titebond Original Wood Glue would not be any more creep resistant than

Titebond II. Although, Titebond Original is used by many guitar

manufacturers. A wood glue of ours that is considered creep resistant would

be Titebond Extend Wood Glue. This product is used for assemblies where the

glue line is under a lot of stress, like bent handrails. I hope this helps.

Marc Bergdahl

Franklin International

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yeah.. so from what I gather each one is great glue.. unless you plan on playing a concert in the middle of the hottest desert in the world, and use your guitar as a pogo stick on your final blazing guitar solo.. lol

[daveq]

I'm not worried unless I'm called to tour with G3 next summer. I guess I won't be worried then.

It was interesting that neither glue is resistent to movement although the original is commonly thought of as a much better glue to use. Not what I was expecting.

[Drak]

Well, you can file this in the FWIW file, but I used T-II for a top, and sure damned enough, it separated after a few months.

I didn't know about the T-II creep at the time, but after I read a post about it, I threw that stuff away and have never used it since, and haven't had any joints separate on me with T-Original.

Coincidence?

[daveq]

Any heat involved when it failed on you or did it just go on it's own?

[Drak]

Nope, just noticed the joint had separated about a 1/32" after a month or two.

That's sizable enough to notice...

[Setch]

I'd also recommend a healthy dose of cynicism where manufacturers information is concerned - they obviously have an adgenda other than providing you with the best possible glue - ie: to sell you their product.

That said, I'm impressed by Franklin's honesty, nice to see. Even so, I'll always side with evidence from people who've used the product a great deal, and most concur that original titebond is a better glue for stressed joints than II. Of course, if you really want a noncreeping glue, get out your double boiler and cook up some hide glue... Definately on my to do list.

[daveq]

I was surprised also - I thought he would tell me there was nothing to be concerned with and the creep issue was a myth.

He actually did not try to sell me on anything. In my first email I told him I was going to switch to another glue but didn't tell him what I was switching to. In his reply, he didn't mention any of the other products. I sent the second email to ask if the original Titebond was any better and that's when he suggested the other product.

Anyway, I have not yet seen any problems with either product but time will tell, I guess. If anyone else has personal experience with these glues (good/bad), please reply. I agree that personal experience is the best when trying to judge these things.

Dave

[Drak]

Well, I'm no steenkin' expert on glue, but on other 'boards it was explained like this:

T-2 has something in it that allows outdoor woods to swell and contract w/o breaking the glue (ummm, can you say 'flexable', and 'never 100% curing'?)

Where T-O, being for indoor woods where no swelling is expected, dries properly and tightly, dry and hard.

I've read posts by some on other 'boards that said they experienced wet T-2 after removing some tops several months after application.

No thanks.

[krazyderek]

ok, so on the titebond bottle it says clamp for 10- 30 minutes, but how long do you guys actually clamp for? And would using the glue sparingly actually be good for the transfer of tone in our case, or is that going to make the joint week? but it's a chemical glue do it souldn't matter, should it?

( i put this in both threads cause it seemed to fit both )

[Drak]

I usually clamp for at least a few hours, a full day if my patience can take it

[daveq]

I have always clamped for at least 24 hrs. Maybe that helps explain why TitebondII hasn't been a problem for me? I have switched to Titebond Original but since the manufacturer plainly stated it won't make a difference in terms of creeping, I will be looking into getting some of that "Extend" someday.

[Guitaraholica2004]

I usually clamp for at least a few hours, a full day if my patience can take it

I'm going to try clamping for a WEEK! Maybe even a MONTH! The neck on my Epiphone Flying V just cracked where it meets the body. Fortunately, the Fretboard didn't crack with the rest of the neck. I'm going to clamp it for a week at the very least. As long as you have another axe to play while the other is clamped, you shouldn't have much of a problem. That's why I'm getting my Epiphone Flying V neck fixed FIRST, so that I have an axe to play while I take my Ibanez GRX20 in to get a Floyd Rose double locking tremolo installed on it (re-routing on the bridge area and re-cutting around the neck area may be done by me).

[krazyderek]

a week?? .... ummm anything past 48 hours is definitly overkill there dude... you shouldn't have that much glue in a joint it takes a week to fully cure.. if you're using that much glue i'd be roughing things up and use some good epoxy

[Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars]

This should be pinned.