My Biggest Fear

[Jalien21]

okay. well, the time has come for me to rout the edges of my guitar don't worry, it's all glued on and the sides are square and everything) and i am always very fearful about this sort of thing. i'll admit it- routers scare me. i have trouble controlling them and i find that i have a decent rate of failure. but i don't even care about tear-outs or anything like that. what really worries me is the bit breaking off or falling out or something. for my edges, i'm using a porter-cable 1/2" radius roundover bit. it's a pretty big piece of metal. and it's gonna be spinning at 20+k rpms. right in front of my body. i'm not gonna figure the physics of that out, but if something that size breaks off spinning that fast less than a foot away from my body, it's not going to look good. are my fears founded? or am i just being silly, and should just join the project guitar router-loving community? if someone could comfort my fears, i would appreciate that. or even confirm. i want to know i'm not crazy. thanks

[Nitefly SA]

any case ive ever heard of of a bit coming loose or breaking it just falls out (spining of course) if its a new bit, ,good if its not you may want to buy a new one just s a precaution, make sure you put it in far enough aswell, if its out too far the likelyhood of it coming out is much greater.

[ToneMonkey]

I think fear of the router is a very good thing to have. I nearly routed my knackers clean off once. I think the bit flying out is unlikely but if it does then there's only a 25% chance of it hitting you. Also make sure you position yourself in the best place so do a couple of dry runs first.

Don't rush it and nothing should go wrong. Does anyone sell bullet proof cricket boxes, that might help

[Robert Irizarry]

okay. well, the time has come for me to rout the edges of my guitar (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2155/2557/1600/DSC_0011.jpg don't worry, it's all glued on and the sides are square and everything) and i am always very fearful about this sort of thing. i'll admit it- routers scare me. i have trouble controlling them and i find that i have a decent rate of failure. but i don't even care about tear-outs or anything like that. what really worries me is the bit breaking off or falling out or something. for my edges, i'm using a porter-cable 1/2" radius roundover bit. it's a pretty big piece of metal. and it's gonna be spinning at 20+k rpms. right in front of my body. i'm not gonna figure the physics of that out, but if something that size breaks off spinning that fast less than a foot away from my body, it's not going to look good. are my fears founded? or am i just being silly, and should just join the project guitar router-loving community? if someone could comfort my fears, i would appreciate that. or even confirm. i want to know i'm not crazy. thanks

That's a pretty understandable fear. It wasn't completely clear but it sounds like you are doing this freehand. You may want to invest in a low end router table or consider building one. You'll have more control that way.

BTW - I love the look of your guitar. That's going to be sweet. Any details?

[Mickguard]

You're afraid of something spinning at 30,000 rpm? Go figure, so am I!

That's why wearing safety gear and taking your time are essential.

I've had a couple of near misses, they've always come from trying to get ahead of myself.

One thing that really helps is to make sure your router has stable support beneath at all times --when you're working on the edges of the body, you should have a good-sized block of the same height for the other side of the router to sit on. That way it won't wobble as much.

I have indeed had a cheap bit break on me, but it was trapped in the pocket I was routing, luckily enough. I think high quality bits are much less likely to break.

Oh yeah, and as long as you're not comfortable with the router, practice on scrap first before going to the body.

[fryovanni]

It is a healthy fear to have. As long as you lock the piece you are cutting in place firmly. Give yourself room to work comfortably. Hold the router firmly. Make sure the bit is sharp, and not damaged or chipped (shaft is clean and free of ruff spots). Your collet should be inspected and be in good shape (they do need to be replaced over time). Be sure the bit is set in the collet correctly and is firmly locked in. Don't over tax the capacity of the bit (don't try to cut too much material in one pass). Don't force the router into a cut (push it too hard) give it enough time to cut. Don't overheat the router and bit. If it is heating up it is being overtaxed. That may be a dull or chipped bit, moving too fast for it to cut, cutting in the wrong direction, removing too much material at one time. If you do these things, and of course wear proper safety equipment (a good shop apron is not a bad idea also). You should be fine.

I think about it like this. Every time I drive to work I am taking a much greater risk than anything I am doing in my shop. I drive defensively. I work in my shop defensively. That is the best we can do.

Peace,Rich

[Ben]

BTW - I love the look of your guitar. That's going to be sweet. Any details?

He has a thread dedicated to this project

Edited June 12, 2006 by Ben

[GregP]

My dad's router (which I used at first) scared the pants off me. The collet wouldn't "grab" the bit properly or something, because no matter how much I tightened it, it would eventually show signs of slippage. In truth, I shouldn't have used it at ALL, but I covered myself in safety gear and made sure to stop and check the collet FREQUENTLY and re-adjust if necessary.

Eventually I realized I needed a new router.

Greg

[GuitarGuy]

He brings up a good point. I think everyone has a tool in their shop that scares them. For me its the tablesaw. I had an old tablesaw kick a piece of wood the size of my forearm back over my shoulder. Ever since I will think of ways to get around using the tablesaw. My fears are mostly unfounded because the saw I was using was way out of adjustment.

When used properly, power tools are very safe. Its just when you try to use them for somthing that they were not designed for, thats when you get in trouble.

Like gregp said, if it appears worn or out of adjustment, fix it or buy a new one.

[thegarehanman]

Table saws can be pretty finicky. It's really important that you don't overload them, that's when the poop hits the fan. I got to use a delta 10" cabinet makers tablesaw this weekend. It ran on 220. I don't remember the hp though. Anyhow, that was one of the smoothest running, most pleasent power tools I've ever used. It cut like butter and was as quiet as a sleeping baby.

On topic, I've had router bits fall out of the collet before. All they've ever done was just fall straight down.

peace,

russ

EDIT: forgot to mention my biggest luthiery related "fear:" pre beveled fret ends. You know, right after you flush cut them but before you bevel the edge when they're razor sharp. I somehow manage to cut myself every single time I'm dressing the frets. I really should start wearing some gloves or something.

[Southpa]

Your fears are well founded. ALWAYS approach the job with caution. I've worked around too many highballers who were just too impatient. That is what causes accidents. I don't care how many years of experience a person has at using high speed power tools, there is still room for an accident here and there.

It doesn't matter what you are doing, playing with a router or roofing a house, when you rush the job you are asking for trouble. I remember one contractor who underbid on a moulding job and tried to make up for it. He was making custom mouldings on site, flat stock being fed thru a table router, just a young guy too. He mangled up his fingers pushing a board too fast. Another guy was playing with the cocaine, decided to work all night putting a bar together, now hes missing ANOTHER finger. Another guy worked without safety harness 4 stories up. He finally fell, got gouged by re-bar on the way down and hit his head on a concrete footing. He talks like he has a dish of coleslaw in his mouth now.

When I do my routing its like preparing for surgery. FIRST, I make sure I'm a competent and confident user. Cut edges on scrap first, don't want to mess up the guitar. When it comes time to cut the guitar I do practice runs, ensuring that power cords are out of the way and I have plenty of elbow room. The router is placed into position, then turn the power on. When I'm done I turn the power off and don't remove the router from the workpiece until it has stopped spinning. Inspect your equipment and tools beforehand. If you are unsure about the shaft of a bit, put it in a slow speed drill first and look for wobbling. Look for any chips or cracks in the bit's blades. if you have ANY doubts about ANYTHING deal with it first before starting.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Southpa

[Mickguard]

When I do my routing its like preparing for surgery.

There are a lot of days when I just don't feel up to working on the guitar, when I just don't have the right energy to work on the thing ...for whatever reason, too tired, too much work, don't have the concentration, feel like playing the guitar instead of building...or, more often than not, I have to do something relatively new and I'm just not prepared to do it.

I guess that's why my progress is so slow. Got this semi-finished neck just sitting there, goading me...nyah nyah...

Well, I have all my fingers still.

[erikbojerik]

If its the one I'm thinking of (collet has two big nuts on it), the Porter Cable router, in particular, sort of has two "levels" (don't know what else to call it) of tightening. You can tighten it by hand as tight as you can, but even then its barely enough to hold the bit in. Then when you use the wrenches, it tightens some more and that's when the bit will stay in.

I've never (ever) had one fall out or fall apart.

For sure, a router table will make that job much easier, it is safer, and it will give you a better end result. If you go that route, just make sure you get a base plate that will fit your router.

[ryanb]

There is some very good advise in this thread. I second all of it.

I have had bits come out of the router before ... cheap junk bits. In one case, i had one actually fail and come apart (one cutter flute came off while routing). The resulting imbalance tore the bit out of the chuck, broke it into three or four pieces, and sent them flying across the shop. One piece hit my face shield (I always use a full-face shield when routing). The others, thankfully, missed me. One was stuck in the wall. I never went near those cheap bits again. Those Chinese bits from the discount tool vendors may seem like a good deal, but they aren't worth it.

Get a good router. Get good quality bits. Learn to comfortably and confidently use the tool. Practice first. Wear all the safety equipment and never shortcut safety procedures. Never rush the job. If it doesn't feel safe to you, it probably isn't -- so step back and re-evaluate things first.

When working with ANY power tool, always think first about what would happen if the tool were to fail. Where would the cutter go if it broke -- make sure none of your body parts are there. For example, never put any body parts directly in line with the blade of a table saw (as much as possible anyway). If the blade fails, it will (usually) leave in the plane of the blade.

And after you've done all that ... enjoy your router because it's a wonderful tool.

[Jalien21]

hey, wow, guys, thanks so much for all of this. i actually have a router table, and i use it with a fence for whatever i can (for truss rod routes and straight things like that). i feel much more comfortable that way. how, exactly do you use a table for things like the edges of the body? i feel like trying to work on something like that requires that i see what i'm doing. but then again, i haven't really tried it. i do practice on scraps and i guess i'll give that a shot with the table and see how it feels. how far would you go with each cut? a side/curve? couple of inches? (sorry... i haven't done this one before, and it has me all excited). i assume the bit is good, it's brand new, the "expensive" option at home depot (i know, i know...). don't know how good the router is, it's my dad's. i'd go look it up, but i'm really, really tired at the moment.

i feel strangely comfortable around table saws. i've been using them for ages while routers are still new to me. maybe my confidence is a bad idea, but i feel pretty safe around them. i've never experienced kick-back (sharp blades and cut slowly), and i always set up all sorts of neat fences and guides to keep it all straight and keep my fingers away from it all.

[MP63]

Full face shield period!...at the least...

[mikhailgtrski]

One piece hit my face shield (I always use a full-face shield when routing).

...note to self - add face shield cart when shopping for router.

[j. pierce]

As other people mentioned, router tables are great for this sort of thing, I love using mine - but do be careful, because with a router table, your hands are now on the work and around the blade, whereas normally, both your hands would be firmly gripping the router at all times. Which keeps the bit away from your fingers. If you use a router table, just be careful that you're fingers are staying away from the bit at all times, and that you have control of the work. Also, make sure that you have a way to turn the router off, preferably hands free, without having to fish around under the router table. (Sears sells switch for plugging the router into that turns off with a big paddle and won't turn on unless a plastic key is inserted. I have it mounted so I can turn the router off just by bumping it with my hip - if something goes wrong, I can turn off the table while still keeping a firm hold on the work.)

[rbjem]

I have a handy tip. Be a teenager.

Teenage = No Fear

[Jalien21]

i'm 18... heh. anyway, i cut it today. did what i could on the table, everything else just freehand. it wasn't bad at all. the blade was band-new and sharp and everything, so it cut really smoothly. im really pleased with the result. i'll post pictures later on. but yeah. nothing flew into my eyes/body. i didn;t meet any resitance while routing. i probably went slower than i needed to, but whatever. everything worked out. thanks a lot for all of the input.

[Southpa]

i probably went slower than i needed to

good man, its safer and makes for a more thorough job. When you say "freehand" do you mean without use of a template? or not on the table? Templates are the way to go. If your template is perfect than the rout is perfect. Its also safer to have a solid guide to follow, it just adds a bit more stability when handling the router.

[Mattia]

Fear is a bad, bad, bad thing with tools. A dangerous thing. You need to respect your tools, know what damage they can do, and do everything you can to avoid it, but using a tool you're actually afraid of is a quick way to pain and hurt. Learn to use your tools, respect the danger they represent, but remember you're the one controlling the damn things, not the other way around.

IMO.

[Jalien21]

i actually haven't made a template. cut the body with a bandsaw, then i shaped the edges to where i wanted them with a drum sander on a drill press, and then i just now used a roundover bit with one of the bearing guide things on the end to radius the edges.

[MP63]

2nd inportant piece of protection....respirator!

Just becasue you finished sanding and cutting, doesn't mean the particles have settled also.

Not very cool playing on stage with a nasal canula attached to your oxygen bottle.

How you treat your body now, will reflect on the conditions you have later in life.

I am 42 and I am now paying for the abuses. 17 years with the LAFD doesn't help either.

You know how you hear guys say how they wished an older version of themselves was around to guide them trough the stupid mistakes they've made...especially with women?

Well, it's not too far from reality...

It's called your father! (and mommy too)

Listen to him.

Take care everyone.

Mike

[Jalien21]

wait. i do a lot of sanding. i've never worn a mask or anything when i do it. i don't sand pressure-treated wood or anything. am i screwing myself? should i really be wearing a respirator whenever i sand anything?