Variax

[boomerlu]

Hey guys

I was wondering if anybody has any detailed knowledge about how the Variax guitar works?

In particular:

1) How does it pick up the string sound? ie, is it a piezo, and if so where is it installed?

2) To what extent does the actual body of the guitar modify the tone?

I am interested because I am considering (in the relatively far future) building a V shaped body and retrofitting the Variax system into the body. If the Variax system is what I think it is (piezo installed independently of the bridge whose only purpose is to identify the note being played), then this opens up a ridiculous realm of possibilities.

For example one could build a fretboard with (almost) as many frets as I want since the fretboard does not in any way interfere with the pickups. One could also build a guitar disregarding the tone the wood makes, and thus base all construction decisions on structural stability and aesthetics. You could use that ridiculously sounding but beautiful looking wood.

Thanks

Yike

[Phil Mailloux]

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/guitars.htm

Have a look at this guy's Variax modified homemade guitars, you'll probably find your answer there.

[crafty]

It's a pretty complicated system. The pickup is merely a L.R. Baggs piezo bridge that senses the vibration of each string individually and sends that to the onboard processor for the "modeling" of each guitar option. The first Variax's that came out were pretty awful for playability and the modeling sounds were mediocre. The newest ones aren't bad if you just need something to play live and you don't want to carry around a truckload of guitars.

You can certainly cannibalize a Variax for the electronics and build your own neck and body like this guy has done, but sooner or later basic guitar physics are going to limit what you can do. It becomes very difficult to play on frets above the 24th fret because the spacing becomes very small and you still have to have somewhere to put your electronics. The electronics in the cheaper Variax's take up more space than the more expensive ones.

[boomerlu]

It's a pretty complicated system. The pickup is merely a L.R. Baggs piezo bridge that senses the vibration of each string individually and sends that to the onboard processor for the "modeling" of each guitar option. The first Variax's that came out were pretty awful for playability and the modeling sounds were mediocre. The newest ones aren't bad if you just need something to play live and you don't want to carry around a truckload of guitars.

You can certainly cannibalize a Variax for the electronics and build your own neck and body like this guy has done, but sooner or later basic guitar physics are going to limit what you can do. It becomes very difficult to play on frets above the 24th fret because the spacing becomes very small and you still have to have somewhere to put your electronics. The electronics in the cheaper Variax's take up more space than the more expensive ones.

Thanks.

Well the basic principle is pretty simple. Piezo --> processor ---> output

Now I know what hardware I would need to keep from the original guitar (ie the bridge and electronics).

And yes I realize the basic guitar physics will get in the way of what's going to be useable. I realize playability is going to suck past around the 24th fret, but you could still for example tap. And yes you do need somewhere to put the electronics, but that's the back and won't interfere with the fretboard. It's entirely possible a V won't be feasible because of space constraints, but my undertaking of this project is a ways off. Perhaps the electronics will become smaller (and cheaper!) by the time I'm ready to do it. Nonetheless I love the Variax concept but slightly dislike the implementation.

[boomerlu]

Update:

I actually heard back from Jeff, he's a real nice guy. Anyhow, he informed me that practically ANY piezo would work.

Man am I stoked for when I actually do this.

[verhoevenc]

My question is this: is there any actual difference in the quality/options of the electronics of the 300, 600, or 700 (or whatever numbers they are!?) series? Or are you simply paying for a better guitar as you go up, just with the same electronics?

Chris

[boomerlu]

My question is this: is there any actual difference in the quality/options of the electronics of the 300, 600, or 700 (or whatever numbers they are!?) series? Or are you simply paying for a better guitar as you go up, just with the same electronics?

Chris

From what I've seen it seems as if the electronics are the same. Except that the cheaper one is apparently larger? I'm not certain. I'll have to ask, but it does indeed same that the processing is the same.

[Ben]

My question is this: is there any actual difference in the quality/options of the electronics of the 300, 600, or 700 (or whatever numbers they are!?) series? Or are you simply paying for a better guitar as you go up, just with the same electronics?

Chris

From what I've seen it seems as if the electronics are the same. Except that the cheaper one is apparently larger? I'm not certain. I'll have to ask, but it does indeed same that the processing is the same.

I'm pretty sure that 500 has better electronics than 300... but I think 600 and 700 just have the same as 500... something like that.

[crafty]

Here's a link to Warmoth's Variax-routed bodies:

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/line6/line6.cfm

It shows the difference between the 300 and 500 series routes, at the very least.

The 600 is the replacement model for the 500. It has a tremolo bridge instead of a fixed one and more models than the 300. The 700 uses the 600 electronics but has a carved-top body and an inlayed neck.

[rlrhett]

The electronics on the 300 are very different from the 5-6-700 guitars. The more expensive guitars have the processor as a separate unit much like active electronics pre-amp. The volume, selector switch, etc. are wired to it.

To save money, LINE 6 uses an integrated circuit board for the electronics in the 300. As a result the 300 is one large block with nobs and everything.

The electronics from the 500 can be rear mounted on a guitar and placed pretty much wherever you want. The 300 must be face mounted and requires an enourmous pickguard to cover it up. As such, the 300 greatly limits what the finished guitar is going to look like.

I don't know why everybody bashes the Line 6 Variax so much. The guitars they put the electronics in are as cheap as many Chinese guitars that are bought all the time, but the electronics are a wonder. The settings really DO sound like what they purport to sound like, and with their software you can virtually create any combo of pickups and any placement you want. It will never be as good at emulating a PAF as having a really good PAF in your guitar, for e.g., but it sounds as good as the mid-line pickups found in most factory guitars.

A good friend and pro musician played the variax under headphones and was amazed. We plugged it through and amp and he said, "it sounds like a really good recording of me playing through and amp." That seemed to sum up the sound perfectly.

[verhoevenc]

I called Line 6 and told them I lived in the middle of the Texas desert with no cheap way to get my guitar to a service center and told them it had complete electronics dead from water damage. He said that labour would be $120 and total it'd be about $250 (that means the electronics are only $130!!!!). But they do NOT send out just the electronics! What douches! GAR!

Chris

[verhoevenc]

I've been looking at the variax 300s and reading about them. Aparently the only differences are a lower quality of actual guitar, the models are said to be the SAME with the SAME processor as the 500, 600, and 700 models. HOWEVER ya'll are right that the packaging of the electronics is set in stone because unlike the more $$$ models, the 300's are permanently set in a big metal fixture. However, who's to say you couldn't get them out of that fixture?

I've also been looking on the warmoth site about how the route for the 300's electronics. Look at the size of the pickguard on it too. You COULD rear-route the 300's electronics making a pickguard not needed. ALSO, if you position the metal fixture right you'd have room for a bridge pickup. And if you really need a neck, put a flouting jazz humbucker!?

I'm going to guitar center to check these ideas out.

Peace,

Chris

[fishgiven]

Having just asked about use of the Tunamatic Piezo bridge I found this topic and it has me jazzed!

I would take a separate approach to this by using the piezo out and working on the modeling or processing externally.

A separation of alternate strings for a stereo output would work well too.

[verhoevenc]

Hmmm.... you mean like a hex processor for the piezo going out to a roland VG-88??? lol, sorry bud, that approach already exists too.

Chris

[crafty]

The thing is, a lot of this stuff has been around for a long time. Gibson and Fender were building guitars designed to be used with synths and off-board processors way back in the '80s. The difference is that Line 6 came along a few years ago and integrated everything into one guitar that was affordable and simple to use.

The Variax 500/600/700 have all the electronics integrated on the guitar. There isn't anything that you have to plug into to make the system work unless you want to use the little phantom power/direct box that you can get from Line 6 to plug directly into a mixer. I know this because I was actually playing a Variax 600 yesterday straight into a Peavey XXL without any external processor or DI box.

[boomerlu]

Everything is accessible right on the guitar. And with the custom banks, you can basically have whatever you want at the flick of a 5 way switch. And that's the beauty of the Variax.

Well, besides the fact that Line6 used a ridiculous approach and modeled EVERY aspect of the instrument rather than sample it, and put out the Workbench which is even more ridiculous.

Outboard synths are a great idea if you want to be playing with like.....violins and french horns and weird synths. Not so much if you want vintage guitar tones.

[Guitarfrenzy]

I agree the Workbench software is a great addition, the thought of being able to go to any tuning you want with a flick of a switch is unreal. Especially on songs where I do slide and then have to come back to rhythm. It would be great for that. I already called Line 6 about selling the electronics long ago, and they said they wouldn't and didn't plan to ever sell them seperately. I would love to have a guitar that had the Variax electronics in it, plus have the 13 pin for playing my GR-33 live. That would be an awesome combination.

[boomerlu]

GR-33 Meaning Midi synth?

Well I think you could do it. First off, many people have transplanted Variax electronics into guitars. Secondly, I think graphtech makes an interface which takes the hexaphonic pickup signal and turns it into midi. Install both and you have exactly that.

I agree the Workbench software is a great addition, the thought of being able to go to any tuning you want with a flick of a switch is unreal. Especially on songs where I do slide and then have to come back to rhythm. It would be great for that. I already called Line 6 about selling the electronics long ago, and they said they wouldn't and didn't plan to ever sell them seperately. I would love to have a guitar that had the Variax electronics in it, plus have the 13 pin for playing my GR-33 live. That would be an awesome combination.

[Guitarfrenzy]

GR-33 Meaning Midi synth?

Well I think you could do it. First off, many people have transplanted Variax electronics into guitars. Secondly, I think graphtech makes an interface which takes the hexaphonic pickup signal and turns it into midi. Install both and you have exactly that.

Now all I have to do is save up the money for the high dollar electronic parts.. lol I hear the RMC pickup is the one to buy, and they aren't cheap. I have some slight false trigger problem with my Roland Strat sometimes, and RMC is suppose to do a better job of picking up the strings.

[boomerlu]

Well hey, it may be expensive, but at least it's POSSIBLE now. And maybe by the time you save up enough, the price may have dropped.

Anyways, I'm going to be doing this mod in the FAR future, like a year or two from now.