New Guy Needing Help

[berggeetars]

First, I'd like to introduce myself to the forum. I have been viewing this treasure trove and making use of it's information for a few months now, and have found it very useful in my building and refinishing attempts. It is refreshing to hear from people who share the same passion that I do.

So here's the problem

Just recently I did a test fit of all the parts on the guitar I am currently building. Everything worked out wonderfully, and the guitar sounds great (even without the electronics). Unfortunately, upon removing the parts, I ran into a problem with the tuners. It seems that as I was removing them, the shafts of two screws broke off in the neck. This means that I cannot re-attach the tuners using the same holes.

I wonder if any of you have had this experience, and if anyone has any ideas as to how I could remedy this.

Sorry if this explanation was not adequate. Upon request I could post visual aid to help the forum understand.

Thanks for your help

[GregP]

Oh I understand all right. Same damn thing happened to me on my lap steel build. You can get special tools for the job, and I'd recommend looking into it. The way I did mine was a mediocre workaround, and my broken screw wasn't right next to the tuning peg holes like yours.

One of the most low-tech ways to do it is to use this special screw, whose name I don't know offhand, which will be screwed in more or less alongside the stuck one, and force it up. The special screw is then removed, but of course the hole leftover from having essentially 2 screws side by side makes that spot unusable until you've filled it with a plug of some sort.

I won't mention my way because it was a bad idea, and I don't want anyone to think, "Hey, it worked! I'll give it a try!" No, it was purely a bad idea.

Greg

[berggeetars]

One of the most low-tech ways to do it is to use this special screw, whose name I don't know offhand, which will be screwed in more or less alongside the stuck one, and force it up. The special screw is then removed, but of course the hole leftover from having essentially 2 screws side by side makes that spot unusable until you've filled it with a plug of some sort.

Greg

I was thinking of doing something similar to this. Just wondering if anyone has another approach to it.

Thanks for the quick reply, and if anyone else has a solution I'm open for suggestions

[WezV]

If you are really lucky there will be a bit of screw poking out that you can grab with some pliers and turn it out. If not try GregP's way.

The real thing you need to address is why the screw snapped in the first place!! Did you drill pilot holes for the screws?

[berggeetars]

Did you drill pilot holes for the screws?

Unfortunately, no. I know that it would have been beneficial to have done so, but I did not have the right size drill bit, so in my impatience I decided to screw them in without pre-drilling.

Guess next time I'll take the time to do it right.

[WezV]

Its a short cut i used to take as well. But i have had enough screws break on me and eventually the message got through my skull. Hopefully you will learn that lesson quicker than i did

[ToneMonkey]

If you can solder a small bolt onto the screw you may be able to remove it. This is unlikely though as I should imagine that if the screw snapped then the solder would probably shear.

I'd do it one night when it's cold too. Hopefully then the wood should shrink a little and the screw could be a little looser.

[Southpa]

I got a similar problem with a piece of nicely figured wood (don't know what species) that I found in one of my client's garage. I used half of it to replace a top step for her front entryway and she gave me the remainder. This wood is extremely hard and dense and has little nubs of broken screws sticking out. Been to almost every hardware store in town and the closest remedy I could find was to buy a small plug cutter to remove the screw and, unfortunately, some of the surrounding wood. But I want to make a neck from this piece. I might get away with just a partial plug, maybe to the tip of the screw and then break the plug out. So the "holy" side will get a fretboard cap. But I won't abandon this piece of wood, its just too nice.

[Spike1956]

Here are some ideas. When I was a toolmaker these are some of the techniques we used to get screws out of metals.

There are tools called screw extractors which I haven't used in a long time but they work great. They have a left hand spiral on the so you drill the proper size hole in your broken screw. And with the screw extactor mounted in a tap handle your insert it in the hole and unscrew it. The problem, I think the smallest one is like a #00 which might be too big, also to drill out the tiny screw you will need to setup in a vise in a drill press or mill (no hand drilling here) and drill with a tiny bit. You may need to center punch the screw to get the drill started on center. Another you might try is finding a left hand drill (they make them) and try drill it out in reverse with a pistol drill, this works .... I've done it. the screw can also be burned out in a EDM machine, but them you would have to submerge the neck in EDM fluid, this probably would ruin it I'm guessing. What I would try is get yourself a carbide burr with a round point about the same size as the root diameter of the screw and gring it out. If you know someone in a tooroom they might be able to help you out. I don;t think any kind of adhesive process will wokr becuase you have very little surface area for adhesion. The srew is probably very tight without pilot holes.

Did the screw break easily? if so they might be some cheap aluminum or brass. I like steel screw. These should grind out easly although your carbide bit might gum up. There is a way to clean the material out of the bit, but it escapes me. Maybe grind some steel to clean it.

Also if your able to drill or grind out some of it you may be able to break it appart with a small pick.

Well, good luck, I hope you get them out. Let me know if any of this helps.

Spike

[doug]

It seems that no matter what approach you take there will be a hole a bit larger than you need. Also, when done the hole should be invisible (so no one but us knows your little uh-oh). I have two suggestions to offer.

Use a small inlay burr in your dremel to grind the the screw out from one side, but keep all the "damage" under the area covered by the tab. Fortunately the hole in the tab is always bigger then the screw which is going to work to your advantage. You won't need to grind it all the way outbut you can try. Then fill the hole with a whittled down sliver of the base wood.

Another way would be sort of "fudging" it. Using the same process above, make room along side the broken screw for another. Fortunately the hole in the tab is bigger than the screw shaft. Once you have made sure there is at least a pilot hole deep enough for the screw, you can insert it carefully along side the broken one. The result will be invisible since only the head of the new screw will be slightly tipped or off center.

There are other hollow screw extraction tools, but they are generally too big.

Like the others whove mentioned this, I can't stress enough the importance of pilot holes! They are a must with small screws and hard woods.

Hope it all works out.

-Doug

[Racer X]

Dan Erlewine talks of just such a dilema in his Guitar Player Repair Guide. I will Paraphrase:

Get a small length of metal tubing, slightly larger than the O.D. of the broken screw, grind one end into teeth, chuck it into a drill, and it will drill AROUND the broken screw (not all the way through the headstock). Now, wiggle the wood and screw till it snaps off, and remove the broken screw/wood plug. Plug hole with appropriate dowel, enlarging made hole if necessary.

Hope this makes sense, and helps. In short, unless you can get the screw to back out, by grabbing it, there appears to be no easy fix.

[Setch]

IMO racer X has the least destructive solution, which is what I was going to recommend. Even brass tubing from a hobby shop will cut well enough to be a single use tool, and the hole left will be ready for doweling.

[doug]

Ha, I had forgotten about that one! Great suggestion. That brass stuff is pretty hard too.

-Doug

[Southpa]

Thats exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned the use of a small plug cutter to get the screws out.

[Racer X]

Ah! Didn't know what you were referring to. Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder. hehe

[doug]

I missed the point to. I had the big fat carbide jobber in mind...

[weaponepsilon]

If you have a drill press or access to one, you should be able to just drill the whole thing out. Then plug the hole with a toothpick drenched in woodglue. After a day, sand that baby flat and drill a new pilot hole.

[berggeetars]

I have read all of your input, and I thank you all for your ideas. I will not be able to drill out the screws directly because there is a veneer on the headstock, and drilling in this way would cause the screws to go through the veneer (if that makes sense?). The approach I believe I will try is to drill a hole next to the broken screws (that will not be seen as it will be covered by the tuners), then I will remove the broken screws. Then it will be a matter of filling these holes and redrilling them. I see no reason why this should not work, and I thank you all again for your help.

[Spike1956]

I really RacerX's idea from Dan E. . Best idea yet.