Solid Burl Body, Can It Be Done?

[Nekul]

I have been offered a 2" thick face from a burl by one of the local woodturners. I told him all I needed would be about 10-15mm to cap a guitar but he said he wants me to make the whole body from the burl to show off the wood. Are there any major drawbacks to using a solid piece of burl for a body?

Luke

[Ducati]

I have been offered a 2" thick face from a burl by one of the local woodturners. I told him all I needed would be about 10-15mm to cap a guitar but he said he wants me to make the whole body from the burl to show off the wood. Are there any major drawbacks to using a solid piece of burl for a body?

Luke

Stupid question, but what type of wood? I am guessing you are saying burled maple? If that's what it is, I think PRS has made some guitar tops (carved maple top over mahogany back) out of burled maple recently. So that's a start at least

[verhoevenc]

Burl is highly affected by cupping and warping due to it's grain orientation in that there are so many counter-acting forces. Hense why burled woods could never be used as a neck, etc. As for a body, I'm sure you COULD but like I said they are succeptible to warping. Hence why it's all gravy to have them as a carved top, cause you have another stable wood like mahogany as a back to help out. If it's a 2" thick piece, wide and long enough for a guitar, then I say you saw it right down the middle, and then bookmatch each of those two have two carve-top bookmatched sets. Use one of those (tell the guy a whole body out of it is a bad idea), and then send me the other one as a consultant's fee

Chris

[Nekul]

I love your sense of humour, consultants fee, priceless!

I figured it wouldnt be such a crash hot idea to do a one piece burl guitar, it would have already been done. On the other hand I dont want to upset a guy who is going to give me beautiful wood for free. I will try to convince him that a more stable base would be better.

As for the type of timber, it isnt maple. He mentioned something about bloodwood but he said he has several burls to choose from. I will take some photos when I get a chance to go and see this stuff in the flesh.

Im kinda nervous though about doing the CA glue finish. From what a could find it is a really time intensive procedure.

Luke

[WezV]

It really depends on the burl.

If its a peice of crazy ass burl with no coherent grain patterens whatsoever then chances are the wood will be to weak.

If you can find a peice that at least has some grain that runs the length of the guitar then it will be more stable but obviously less burly

I would consider using a peice of burl on the back and front with a solid peice of wood in the middle for stability. I suppose if you were intent on having a solid burled body you could even cut the body blank in half and insert some solid wood supports inside before glueing it back together, thats alot of work and planning to get right, but possible.

[verhoevenc]

Yeah, he's got a point. The top AND back sandwich idea would make MOST of the guitar showing burl and would probably please him?

Chris

Also, I'd recommend EPOXY over the CA... CA is a pain, REALLY runny, irritates your eyes and respritory system, etc. Epoxy (try and find Devcon 2-Ton 30 minute) is a dream. Love the stuff, use it all the time.

Chris

[low end fuzz]

i tried a burl body (about 35mm) with a spalted top; it looked awsome and the weight was pretty sweet;

but 2 months later all the laquer de laminated leaving prolly a mm or 2 of air between it and the wood and cracked around the roundest edges;

i guess its from the warping; it was all sealed w/ epoxy first before spraying didnt even leave my shop exposed to a different humidity;

but man WAS it beutiful

[Setch]

i tried a burl body (about 35mm) with a spalted top; it looked awsome and the weight was pretty sweet;

but 2 months later all the laquer de laminated leaving prolly a mm or 2 of air between it and the wood and cracked around the roundest edges;

i guess its from the warping; it was all sealed w/ epoxy first before spraying didnt even leave my shop exposed to a different humidity;

but man WAS it beutiful

Was the burl properly dried? Burl is often sold for use by wood turners, who regularly use green or semi-dried woods.

[erikbojerik]

.....also, almost all of the burls I've seen are sealed in wax, almost entirely. I nearly pulled the trigger on one, the main thing that stopped me was that I couldn't figure out how to remove the wax 100% from all that open grain and voids.

[Fraser]

Luke, it can be done: Click!

mine was not the best implementation, but still, it can be done.

[Nekul]

THat looks nice Fraser. Kinda like an Ibanez S or something. I like it.

All things considered I will try to impress upon my new best friend (person who is willingly giving me nice timber) how it may be not be the best option. Maybe the idea of laminating it back and front over something more stable like purpleheart or mahogany. Any other ideas for a nice laminate combination? I am going to a timber supplier in Brisbane ina few weeks and may be able to get something suitable their.

At the end of it all I will give it a try if he really wants me to. THe worst that could happen is muck up a free piece of burl and say "we were warned." He still has a few more large burls.

Luke

[Supernova9]

THat looks nice Fraser. Kinda like an Ibanez S or something. I like it.

All things considered I will try to impress upon my new best friend (person who is willingly giving me nice timber) how it may be not be the best option. Maybe the idea of laminating it back and front over something more stable like purpleheart or mahogany. Any other ideas for a nice laminate combination? I am going to a timber supplier in Brisbane ina few weeks and may be able to get something suitable their.

At the end of it all I will give it a try if he really wants me to. THe worst that could happen is muck up a free piece of burl and say "we were warned." He still has a few more large burls.

Luke

How about:

Create your template for the body shape at full size

Resaw the Burl in half

Create Female Template 1/2" smaller all round

Cut Cavity into Burl Top and Bottom

Create Matching Piece of Solid Wood

Glue into Burl

Glue Burl Halves Back Together, possibly with accent line round the join?

Bit convoluted, but hopefully you see my idea?

[verhoevenc]

I think that's what someone above was getting at but less explained? But that'd surely work... and probably look stunning.

As for woods, I would NOT recommend purpleheart, that'd be WAY heavy, and you don't need THAT much added stability lol. Think just normal woods, mahogany, ash, alder, etc. they will all provide the stability you'd need.

Chris

[WezV]

yeah, i dont always explain myself that well!!

[low end fuzz]

ya ,there was a chance it was still partially green, but the epoxy should plastisize it enough from doing that.......but i guess not;

it was bought p.a.d. but it sat around for a good year and a half before i even dressed it; so maybe not the best example, but i couldnt see myself waiting much longer or doing any more steps than i did.

[Setch]

Epoxy won't help you at all if the wood isn't dried.

A good rule of thumb for air drying wood is 1 year per inch of thickness. I'd then add another year to be sure

[Nekul]

Got it, no purpleheart. I tend to use lacewood (silky oak) for almost all my bodies because it is so common here and apparently it has similar tonal qualities to alder. I like the idea of making a cavity in the burl and laying the silky into to then regluing. It seems like a waste of the internals though. I might just try to get him to give me 2 10-15mm slices off the burl and use them as tops. I just want to keep enough on top so that the armrest doesnt get both woods in it.

I am thinking about using the epoxy rather than CA glue but was wondering, do you just flood coat both top and bottom then work your wy around the sides or do the top and sides at the same time then flip it over after that sets? I suppose I am asking if there is a way to have it smooth straight away or will sanding be inevitable?

Luke

[verhoevenc]

Sanding is innevitable my friend

But if you spread it well you can reduce the amount needed.

Oh yes, I'm QUITE familiar with lacewood... sends me to ERs , but I DID get a gorgeous guitar out of it! And it does sound similar to alder.

As for your armrest delimma, I'm not burl expert, but I know with other woods you can carve the arm rest into your body wood, and then just bend the top to match it. There's even a tut. on doing it somewhere around here? Might even be on the main homepage's list of tuts?

Chris

[fryovanni]

Interesting advise. I have been itching to respond 2 or 3 times now, but I keep stopping myself because my advise would be poor without seeing what kind of burl you are looking at (as well as better insite into it's level of dryness or stabalization.). I think it will really depend on the burl and how much or lack of grain structure you have.

Peace,Rich

[Drak]

My reply would be that if you have to ask this many questions about how to do it, then you probably don't have enough experience to attempt it yet.

Can it be done? Absolutely. BUT only if you have experience under your belt to guide you.

In other words, you may be at skill level 4, but to pull a body like that off successfully would require a skill level of an 8 or 9...you get the idea...

Building guitars is an art and a science, and there are appropriate projects to attempt when you're first starting out, and projects that would be folly to attempt at that same stage, which is where this project falls for you I think.

Not trying to be rude, just truthful.

[Nekul]

Dont stress, I dont take anythign personally on the net, you cant get certain things across the right way at times. Im not that sensetive.

I agree though, Im probably not at theat level in terms of wood work (Im no expert there for sure) but I have made/modified about a dozen electrics over the last several years and I think it is time I stepped up my game. Like I said before, I would rather attempt something like this on free timber than on something I paid hundreds for. Hence so many questions. Just cause its free doesnt mean I am prepared to muck it up because I didnt have all the info.

So when I actually get this timber in the flesh I will post pictures of it for people to advise me as to wether or not the burl can be bent. I always figured that it wasnt a good idea because of the lack of grain structure but like I said, I aint no expert. So keep those comments coming and thanks for the advice so far.

Luke