Amish School Shooting

[!!METAL MATT!!]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15105305/?GT1=8618

NICKEL MINES, Pa. - A 32-year-old truck driver took about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday, barricaded the doors and shot to death at least three of the girls and then himself, authorities said. Seven other girls were taken to hospitals with gunshot wounds, some to the head.

It was the nation’s third deadly school shooting in less than a week, and similar to an attack just days earlier at a school in Colorado.

Lancaster County Coroner G. Gary Kirchner initially reported that six people were killed, but later said he wasn’t certain. Police said they found four people, including the gunman, dead in the schoolhouse.

The gunman, identified as Charles Carl Roberts, had been in the school for about 45 minutes before police arrived, State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller said.

Roberts walked into the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School with a shotgun and handgun, then released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with infants before barring the doors, Miller said.

The girls were lined up along a blackboard and their feet were bound, he said.

A teacher called police around 10:30 a.m. and reported that a gunman was holding students hostage.

Once police arrived, Roberts called 911 and threatened to shoot if the police didn’t leave, Miller said. When police tried to call Roberts’ cell phone, shots rang out inside.

Officers had to break windows to get into the school. By then, three young girls had been killed “execution-style” and the gunman was dead, Miller said.

The wounded included three girls, all critical and ages 6 through 12, who were admitted to Lancaster General Hospital, spokesman John Lines told NBC affiliate WGAL-TV.

!!METAL MATT!!

[Lord-of-the-strings]

I was JUST reading about that before I came onto PG!! What a sin man, innocent kids, girls at that. He said it was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago.

[crafty]

Truly terrible. I really wish they'd stop broadcasting and glorifying this stuff because all the psychos seem to come out of the woodwork and copycat in droves. Almost the same scenario last week in Colorado and plenty of school violence elsewhere in the country as well.

This really pisses me off though. These kids were AMISH. About the most peaceful, forgiving people you'll ever meet. No one deserves this, especially the most defenseless people in our society.

[tirapop]

Another senseless tragedy.

I've long thought they ought to develop a drug for people with personalities/psychoses prone to murder-suicide. It would cause them to confuse the order and kill themselves before they manage to hurt anyone else.

There's a tendency to look at crimes like this or Columbine and think that this is something uniquely modern, driven by violent media, etc. I heard the girl, now woman, responsible for the "I don't like Mondays" shooting was up for parole. I looked up the incedent on Wiki and then followed some related links. I stumble on the entry for the Bath School Disaster. I'd never heard of it before. 1927, Bath township sets up a property tax to pay for a modern school. It's enough to set off the school board treasurer, a failing farmer facing foreclosure. He bombs the school killing 45 people, mostly children.

[fryovanni]

I read about what happened. Horrible... Tragic on so many levels. As a father I can't even start to imagine what those families and children are going through.

Rich

[oz tradie]

It's very sad, and unfortunately similar occurences happen too many bloody times for anyone's good.

We had a horrible scenario years ago at Port Arthur in Tasmania, Aus. A very black day.

[MP63]

This is what happens when people grow up in a soceity where they are coddled and allowed to do anything they want.

People are not used to hearing the word "no" or being rejected.

When it does happen, there are outcomes like this, over and over, because they feel unfairly treated.

Hey, life is not fair, if nobody told these crazy people.

News bulletin:....."life" and "fair" do not exist together!!!!!

Life is too crazy now.

A simple life is all these people were trying to live.

I'm sure there is forgiveness in their hearts, even though at this time there is lots of pain.

They need our prayers. Only the living hurt, as the children are in heaven with our Lord.

God bless them.

"All things are lawful unto me, but not all things are good for me."

[Daniel Sorbera]

Truly terrible. I really wish they'd stop broadcasting and glorifying this stuff because all the psychos seem to come out of the woodwork and copycat in droves. Almost the same scenario last week in Colorado and plenty of school violence elsewhere in the country as well.

This really pisses me off though. These kids were AMISH. About the most peaceful, forgiving people you'll ever meet. No one deserves this, especially the most defenseless people in our society.

I know somone who went to that school in colorado and knew the girl that died. It hit him pretty hard. It's one thing to hear about it on the news and say It's horriable or sad. But to look into the eyes of somone that went to the school and knew the person that died makes you look at it a completely diffrent way.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Godin SD

[TonyB7539]

definitely a senseless tragedy brought on my a sick, demented individual. From what i read this morning the guy went in there with the intentions of molesting all the girls. They said he brought lubricating jelly with him... It's a good thing the sick bastard off'd himself, so it saves us taxpayers from having to flip the bill for his legal counsil, appeals, and his time he would have served in the prison.

[Phont24]

This is just an awful thing that happened, but I also heard one of the most amazing things about this event. The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel.

[Recursion]

"The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel"

The family didnt make him kill. Why blame someone that didnt have control over the situation? Im sure they would have done something if they could.

[Phont24]

"The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel"

The family didnt make him kill. Why blame someone that didnt have control over the situation? Im sure they would have done something if they could.

I understand that, but it's just when such an atrocity occurs to a family rationality goes out the window. People are always looking for someone to blame. Similarly families of prisoners on death row suffer quite a bit even though they have had made no transgressions.

[Recursion]

Thats true.

[Drak]

This is just an awful thing that happened, but I also heard one of the most amazing things about this event. The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel.

To anyone who understands and follows the ways of God, the reaction would have been nothing unordinary at all, rather expected really.

[Daniel Sorbera]

This is just an awful thing that happened, but I also heard one of the most amazing things about this event. The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel.

To anyone who understands and follows the ways of God, the reaction would have been nothing unordinary at all, rather expected really.

Yeah I wasn't surprized at all. I figured it would be such, considering he went into an amish school.

[Jester700]

This is just an awful thing that happened, but I also heard one of the most amazing things about this event. The families of the victims went to the family of the mudurer and forgave them that same night. I'm absolutely shocked to think about the level of faith the Amish have that they could forgive the loss of a child without hatred that I'm sure many people would feel.

To anyone who understands and follows the ways of God, the reaction would have been nothing unordinary at all, rather expected really.

I think it's awesome that the Amish families did that - to put the assuaging of others' pain above their own in a time of tragedy. My hat is off to them, as well as my condolences for them, AND the family of the killer.

But to say this is an "expected" behavior of god followers is simply untrue. It is special, and fairly rare. The Amish are a branch of christianity, but quite unlike most branches, and I suspect most christians I know would not have done this (though understandably, IMO).

[erikbojerik]

To anyone who understands and follows the ways of God, the reaction would have been nothing unordinary at all, rather expected really.

Word.

But to say this is an "expected" behavior of god followers is simply untrue. It is special, and fairly rare. The Amish are a branch of christianity, but quite unlike most branches, and I suspect most christians I know would not have done this (though understandably, IMO).

It is human nature that the desire for revenge often overcomes the desire to forgive. When it comes down to it, judgement and revenge are not really ours to mete out. If it were, it would be "eye for an eye" and the whole world would be blind (to paraphrase Ghandi).

Those Amish families got it right. Such actions really are to be expected, but it is all too easy to fall short of those expectations especially in such a situation. But when you think about it, I'd say we all have daily opportunities to demonstrate that same kind of spirit on a much lower level. That's where it starts.

[spazzyone]

The real shame other than the deaths of these little girls

is that even the omish way of life is no longer safe from the evolution of man

what i mean by evolution is the technological world that they stray away from

i have two little girls 4 and 8 yrs old and i dont know how the omish do it

i dont know that i would not seek revenge

[Drak]

But to say this is an "expected" behavior of god followers is simply untrue. It is special, and fairly rare. The Amish are a branch of christianity, but quite unlike most branches, and I suspect most christians I know would not have done this

Not really true. Just depends on how rigourously you follow and practice your beliefs, whatever thay may be. Just going to church on Sunday or reading religious books isn't really gonna get you to the level the Amish typically are at, but having said that, they have no special corner on the market for forgiveness.

There are plenty of 'normal' people out there across the world who would do the same thing, because they understand and practice the same basic principles the Amish do, it's not some special secret only the Amish are privy to, every human being out there has the same opportunity to reach that kind of inner peace and understanding, some just don't bother to do it, or find it unnecessary in their lives for whatever reason.

Look at it this way: let's say they have large deposits in their spiritual bank accounts that they have been depositing in from an early age, on a regular basis, so when disaster strikes and they need to finally make a withdrawal from that account, they have plenty there, an abundance of spirituality to draw on is there waiting for them the day they may need it, because they decided it was important to them to make these deposits all throughout their lives.

If one (or the 'christians' referred to earlier) doesn't feel it necessary or important to make these kinds of deposits, then one certainly won't have anything there when disaster strikes, and one may very well make terribly bad decisions based on an empty account, only empty because they never, or rarely, made any deposits.

Simple really, but not always easy.

[Digideus]

Im not going to go into a long tirade here of how I disagree with you Drak, as I have no interest in arguing over personal beleifs, but I will say that forgiveness is not just a religious practice. Not that im trying to take anything away from the act itself because, in this particular situation, its a deeply humbling act that deserves respect, but I doubt that 90% of the population of this planet are capable of such selflessnes in the light of recent events, and I dont think I would be any less respectful of the Amish people if they chose not to. In truth, I have no opinion on how they conduct themselves.

I think its a shame that the media are packaging the Amish families grief at a time like this to feed their ratings, but thats my own take on the blatently intrusive actions of the media.

I had to laugh out loud (more through sheer disbeleif than any amusement) when I discovered that the killer had an arsenal of weaponry on him, yet the only thing in his possession that was illegal was a stun gun.

Clearly, this whole situation sucks and why the world is looking on asking how it happened, at least Marilyn Manson can sit at home safe in the knowledge that no-one can blame him this time!

[Daniel Sorbera]

but I will say that forgiveness is not just a religious practice.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never read the bible. All of Jesus' teachings are about mercy and forgiveness, not about living perfectly or whatever else the popular belief may be.

[Drak]

I don't see anybody arguing here.

forgiveness is not just a religious practice

I never said it was, I never used the word religion, you did.

I think its a shame that the media are packaging the Amish families grief at a time like this to feed their ratings, but thats my own take on the blatently intrusive actions of the media.

You know, that's the easy way out to think about it, and I thought that too the first day it happened, but over the past few days I came to another realization, another way to comprehend the situation, and that was that these people are giving the world a very valuable lesson on how to correctly deal with life's tragedies, they are leading by example, showing you how it's done, really walking the walk, not talking the talk, but it's only there for the people who have the perception to see it.

You can find a positive in any situation, no matter how bad it seems on the surface, or you can just concentrate on the negatives, it's up to you, no one's holding a gun to your head telling you what to believe or percieve, it's your call, and there are many choices to choose from, but it is in the choosing that makes all the difference.

What I'm trying to say is that just because they don't have electricity and live simply and all that stuff that surrounds Amish life, that doesn't give them any particular corner on forgiveness or acceptance, anyone can have it, anyone can do it, and have electricity and cars too.

They're not special people, not any different than you or me, as far as what it takes to forgive and move on past a very dark chapter.

If you think/believe that they're so different than you and other people you know, that allows you to cop out and not even think you could possibly do what they did, which would be a mistake. One should be shooting for that kind of internal control, and not letting one's emotions run their lives.

All the spiritual leaders tried to show by example that anyone can do what they did, that's the whole point, and when you say, 'well, Jesus was Jesus, or Buddha was Buddha for chrissakes, of COURSE they can do that stuff, ...then you've lost the point completely.

They're giving you a mark to shoot for, and hoping you will take up the game.

The Amish choose to play the game very seriously, but that game is just as available to you and me and everyone else who's alive and sucking oxygen as it is to them.

[Scott Rosenberger]

I was afraid this thread would turn to religion.

Sorry guys but rules are rules gotta shut 'er down