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Horizontal Laminate


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i just finished shaping a neck where i was experimenting with this;

i'll get some pics;

the body was all done in a pin stripe fashion, so i decided to make the neck opposite too;

i think it looks cool; but man, it is impoosible to make it look exactly right;

i got purpleheart against the fingerboard under hard maple;no figure (thank god)

even when all my straight edges and guides were dead on the top peice still seemed to look wanky;

the cool parts about it; besides being different;

it makes the middle (top) laminate taper by itself; the laminates dissapear under the headstock; which looks cool;

oh another bad thing is the glue lines; when your carving such an oval(?)-esque type shape it gives alot more of an angle for glue lines to show there ugly head;

i'll go get some pics if i remember

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What are folks talking about when they say horizontal laminates? Like, laminates in the same plane as the fingerboard? Glue's not strongest in that direction, and the joint is taking on a lot of shear stress that's entirely absent (pretty much) in a 'traditional' laminated neck.

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What are folks talking about when they say horizontal laminates? Like, laminates in the same plane as the fingerboard? Glue's not strongest in that direction, and the joint is taking on a lot of shear stress that's entirely absent (pretty much) in a 'traditional' laminated neck.

I agree with Mattia. I don't think anyone wants to hear that :D . So carry on.

Peace,Rich

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Is this what you mean?

walnutblank.jpg

Thats not what I mean . As far as I know that is a vertical (the more popular )way to laminate. The way I will do my next neck is this : Imagine you have the guitar in a playable postiton, the bottom of the neck profile will be dark wood, the middle will be light wood and the fretboard will be dark.

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linc luthier neck

This neck should be realy strong since you have this kind of bridge effect; like a laminated aircraft floor.

Good luck!

Philippe

That is exactly wht i mean :D

wohoo i have found some one who does this :D

I thought it impossible that no one used this design method .. but here we go .. now .. what are the pro's and teh cons ..

Edited by hendrikjan
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Personally, I would still think that vertically laminated pieces of wood would be stronger. For one, when the neck is strung up, you have the strings pulling perpendicular to the joint, creating a "peeling" effect, causing the actual glue joint to have to hold the neck together. Conversely, with vertically laminated necks, the tension is parallel to the glue joints, allowing the wood itself to support the neck, keeping the glue joints relatively stress-free.

The other obvious drawback to horizontal laminates is that you would have to get your neck PERFECTLY symmetrical in order to look decent.

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Interesting concept! That has to look really cool. Grain orientation would still be very important though, moreso if the layers are thicker.

I'd say give it go. Heck, I might just try it too. It's so non-traditional... Cool!

What have you got to loose? Some time and some wood. That's how we all learn. The only other thing, besides the aforementioned symetry, is too many layers may turn it into sort of a playwood looking thing. That may not be bad though, just something to keep in mind.

BTW, a proper glue bond is stronger than the surrounding wood. Laminates add strength when implemented properly.

Have fun!

-Doug

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that was my problem; i know im gonna be left with something; that could pass as 'perfect' but myself still see wavy type lines along the joining laminates;

What would those wavy lines be caused from?

-Doug

I'm guessing just slight imperfections in the shape of the neck?

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That just means that it will split along side the glue joint, rather than right at it.

That's right. Same applies for any other use of wood in a neck. Splitting could occur.

This horizontal lmainate might not yield a neck as stiff as a more traditional vertical lam. The test would be to make 2 blanks and stress test them. One is sure to flex more than the other. I wish I had more time for fun stuff like this!

-Doug

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What are folks talking about when they say horizontal laminates? Like, laminates in the same plane as the fingerboard? Glue's not strongest in that direction, and the joint is taking on a lot of shear stress that's entirely absent (pretty much) in a 'traditional' laminated neck.

Actually, glues are strongest in shear (where the parts want to slide against each other on the glued surface). They're weaker in tension (pulling perpendicular to the glued surface) and peeling. Well designed bonded joints and weldments transfer load in shear.

But, yeah, a vertical laminate can have much less or no shear across the bondline. There's probably is going to be some, depending on where the bondline is relative to the tuners. The neck is getting pulled into a bowed shape, by the strings acting through tuners and where the string contacts the nut. If one of the vertical laminations is doesn't have a tuner in it pulling it toward the the bridge, the adjacent lamination that does have a tuner in it is going to pull it into the bowed shape... through the bondline in shear.

The loading on a horizontal laminate bondline is probably less severe than the load on the bondline of scarf joint for a tilt back head. That bondline has more shear, over a smaller area, and a peeling component to the load.

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What are folks talking about when they say horizontal laminates? Like, laminates in the same plane as the fingerboard? Glue's not strongest in that direction, and the joint is taking on a lot of shear stress that's entirely absent (pretty much) in a 'traditional' laminated neck.

Actually, glues are strongest in shear (where the parts want to slide against each other on the glued surface). They're weaker in tension (pulling perpendicular to the glued surface) and peeling. Well designed bonded joints and weldments transfer load in shear.

But, yeah, a vertical laminate can have much less or no shear across the bondline. There's probably is going to be some, depending on where the bondline is relative to the tuners. The neck is getting pulled into a bowed shape, by the strings acting through tuners and where the string contacts the nut. If one of the vertical laminations is doesn't have a tuner in it pulling it toward the the bridge, the adjacent lamination that does have a tuner in it is going to pull it into the bowed shape... through the bondline in shear.

The loading on a horizontal laminate bondline is probably less severe than the load on the bondline of scarf joint for a tilt back head. That bondline has more shear, over a smaller area, and a peeling component to the load.

so is it a stronger construction, the horizontal laminate? or weaker... hmm I am a bit confused.. But I am sure going to try to build one that way :D sometime in the future ..

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