Inlay on a compound radius

[daveq]

Is it worth trying to do inlay on an already radiused (compound) fretboard? I'm thinking of doing something other than dots (not sure what yet) - let's just say they will be figures of some sort. What I'm concerned about is routing too deep in some areas and not deep enough in others (due to the radius). Keeping consistency in depth would be a problem (I think) since the radius will be changing as you move.

If anyone has done this before, please let me know - or if you think it should be possible, I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Thanks,

Dave

[LGM Guitars]

it's no harder than inlaying on anything else, just keep a constant router depth, since you'll be following the fretboard surface with the router base, it will follow the curve, then whatever material you use, make sure the pieces are small enough to follow the curve somewhat, then sand it out. On flat boards like Ibanez, you can inlay one piece across the board and have enough thickness to sand it out, but on a really tight radius like a telecaster (6") you have to do sections across the board so it follows teh radius, then you sand it all smooth.

[krazyderek]

i always thought inlays are essiest when done before the neck gets radiused, how tight of a neck can you do that too though? 10, 12?

[daveq]

Thanks LGM ,

I was thinking that I would make something to hold my dremel above the fretboard and maybe have a template so the shank would follow it. I was worried that as I moved up the fretboard (toward the body end), I would start routing too deep. I guess I could reference the middle since it shold be the same height and try to estimate the depth for the sides?

Your reply is making me wonder if my idea of mounting the dremel above the fretboard is not so good. If I followed the contour, that might solve the issue. The only issue then is how to make a template that can fit the contour? Crud!

[Brian]

You can do it to a 9" radius as long as you have the block to smooth it with

[Guitarfrenzy]

He hit on a mistake I just recently have made. I radiused the fretboard first and I would have preferred to have done it before. I didn't think much about it at the time, but now I think about the mistake alot.. lol.. So knowing that someone has inlayed like this gives me hope, since I pretty much just thought a dot inlay would be my only route. I was thinking of gluing them in with wax paper in front of my radius block and clamp it in till it drys. Anyone have good luck doing block inlays after the radius was already done? I see that LGM has done it before, and would like to get some tips from people who have done that before.

[tsl602000]

but on a really tight radius like a telecaster (6")

a 6" radius on a Tele? Just wondering.. but weren't the early Tele's 7 1/4"?

[krazyderek]

lol my tele is 10

[LGM Guitars]

I just did a refret on a 78, it was 6" for sure.

Anyway, doing an inlay before you radius the board can and will typically lead to sanding through your inlay material on the edges. Every inlay I do, I radius the board first, at least rough, inlay, then smooth it out. Plus, 90% of the inlays I do for customers are on existing necks. Also, even shell is pretty transparent and if you get to thin it will lose alot of color. You want to try to keep it an even thickness all across the board.

When you use a dremel router attachment, the depth is set permanently (until YOU change it) and the route base will follow the fretboard contour perfectly as long as you make sure the bit is always 90 degrees to the work surface. I try to route the same depth that my material is. The bottom won't be flat then, but unless it's a really tight radius, it won't matter once epoxy is in there. if it is a tight radius, just be sure to cut your pieces so they will follow the radius a bit closer.

[Bingo328]

So just so I understand this. LGM, you make the route the same radius as your fretboard and just bend the inlay when you glue it in? How do you go about scribing your lines on the FB since it is already rounded and your trying to follow a straight piece of inlay. I'm running into this situation and have also wanted to know if it is pssible.

[Guitarfrenzy]

I reread the Make Your Own Electric Guitar book, since I remembered that he mentioned it is best to do inlay work with the neck non-cambered or non radiused. So I think I'm gonna try what he suggests... On page 98 it reads:

"Since some precut fretboards are also cambered, the fretboard would need to be fixed to a plywood base and the router supported on small pieces of plywood, either side of the board, which are the same height as the centre of the board."

Just another way to do it.

Matt V

[daveq]

"Since some precut fretboards are also cambered, the fretboard would need to be fixed to a plywood base and the router supported on small pieces of plywood, either side of the board, which are the same height as the centre of the board."

I didn't read that part but that was my first idea on how I was going to do it. I think LGM is saying that it is better to run the dremel along the surface of the fretboard and not worry about having a flat-bottomed route. I don't think he is saying that you should try to bend the material - that doesn't sound good to me. I think he is saying that there will be some "filler" epoxy underneath areas where the fretboard curves away? Maybe not?

I'll try it out soon and let you know.

[Bingo328]

I get what LGM is saying about following the lines raduis of the FB, but how do you get accurate scribe lines on the board then. The inlay piece won't sit flat enough to trace around will it

[Guitarfrenzy]

Yet another good reason to not radius your fretboard first.. lol

[LGM Guitars]

when I cut my inlay pattern, I usually draw it first in CAD, but even if by hand, make a couple copies of it. When in CAD I print all with hairline. Then I use one copy to glue to my blanks and cut my pieces, I use the other copy to transfer the image to the fretboard.

Also, even if the board is radiused, it's not difficult to roll the inlay piece over the curve of the board as you trace it. Like I say, these are techniques I use, simply because most of the work I get is inlays on existing necks, also, I would really be pissed if I inlayed an intricate design on a flat board, sanded the radius in, and lost a corner where the material started getting to thin

[Bingo328]

Cool thats a good idea using the CAD drawings as templates. Being a drafer you'd think that would have been my first try. thanks LGM

[DavisCustomGuitars]

I have inlayed a 7.25" radius fretboard and didn't run in to much trouble. Since most shell products are cut to .05" thick there is usually plenty of surface to sand down when the inlay is complete so you shouldn't "sand through" your shell. Now the grain of the shell may change slightly due to the slightly different depth that you may sand into your shell, but it should still look good. I do suggest radius sanding blocks that can be found at most luthier supply stores (I bought some from stew mac). The 8" work the best for me since they give you more sanding surface area at once and give you a truer radius. The sanding blocks even work well when changing fretboard radius. I turned a 9.5" to a 12" radius without any problem. Once you've cut or routed your cavities, just glue/epoxy in your inlays as normal adding slightly more glue to the outer edges of the inlay if your pattern covers a large area of the fret (since shell doesn't bend well). Your router should follow your fretboard radius fairly well keeping the cavity depth even. Once dried, your radius sanding block will sand down all your high spot and radius your inlays as well as any high spots on your fretboard. As far as a compound radius, I've never done one. Since your radius changes throughout the length of the fretboard I imagine you will need several sanding blocks and a lot of patience and care in ensuring there are even transitions. But all in all I think the inlay process will remain the same.

Hope this helps.

[Clavin]

Hi again all. Sorry about the dumb typos in that last post

I always try to do all my inlays on on a radiused fingerboard first. Any sanding away at the board after the inlay goes in will change the color, etc.. pattern, etc.. of your chosen materials patterns and cause frustration. This still may happen anyway, but at least you have some control inlaying into a radiused board.

One way to deal with the radius is to design your pattern around it.

Then glue up the pattern literally on the board to shape, using a little super glue to hold it together, over wax paper so it won't stick to the board. This will let the inlay take on the curve of the board. Then you scribe, route, and glue/sand like normal.

The challenge becomes when you want a large piece of something to go across the whole board. Then you either need thicker materials, or to change your design.

This inlay is on the tightest radius I know of for a fingerboard- the violin.

Calculus shows that a curve is really just a bunch of really tiny straight lines all connected. The straight parts of the violin curve all equaled 1/4 inch abouts.

I designed the inlay by first patterning out 1/4" across guidlines, then made sure all the pieces fit the 1/4". The length didn't matter as that part is flat.

The large bell of the jelly is a solid piece of plastic- atlantine, that is thinckness sanded to 1/4" itself- meaning it was thick enough to span the fretboard without sanding through it. Shell is not that thick, so 1/4" is all that would go before the bottom dropped out on it for this radius.

The long tentacles are hand engraved with a graver, and then filled with silver dust, so the radius didn't matter.

Here is a pic.

The small pieces of black and white pearl in the bell are inlaid after the first inlay is finished, but all are still under 1/4" wide.

This entire inlay was glued to the board first on wax paper, shaped, and then glued up before scribing it.

Thanks, Craig