Reverse Poles, Phase Switch Question

[dragonbat13]

Whats the difference between a reverse pole single coil in the middle and a phase reversal switch in the middle. I was under the impression that the poles reversed when the phase reversed on the switch. I don't think I know the whole picture.

[spazzyone]

by reverse pole i assume you mean reverse wound

wich means the winding on the coil it self is wound in reverse

so that in positions 2 and 4 are noise canceling. kinda like a humbucker

reverse phase changes positive to negitive and vise versa

there is a differance im sure somone will chime in with better info

[unklmickey]

Spazzyone covered the gist of it. here are some more details:

RWRP - reverse wound, reverse polarity.

magnetizes the area that the pickup will sense, with the opposite magnetic polarity than a normal pickup.

has either the pickup wound in the opposite direction, or has the connections reversed.

this double reverse (magnetic polarity and coil direction) results in signal having the same direction (in-phase) as a normal pickup would.

but, hum from external things, like motors, CRTS, transformers, etc. will be out of phase, compared with a normal pickup.

by itself, that doesn't help at all. but when a RWRP is connected together with a normal pickup, the hum (mostly) cancels.

on a side note:

if you connect 2 normally wound pickups out-of-phase, the hum (mostly) cancels. the signal from the strings also (mostly) cancels. if the pickups are right next to each other, the signal is VERY weak, because as the vibration travels down the string, there is very little difference in time between when the when the peaks pass each pickup. if they are farther away , there is enough difference in time, that they don't don't cancel nearly as well, and provide an interesting tone. when they are very far away, one at the neck, the other at the bridge, they have a larger difference in time, AND a much different harmonic content. an even more interesting and usable tone.

i know at this point someone might be thinking "hey wait a minute... if they are farther away, won't the hum signal reach them at different times, and not cancel very well?"

the difference in time for the hum signal will be miniscule. i won't tell you why, but if you think about it, you'll figure out why.

cheers,

unk

Edited December 2, 2006 by unklmickey

[dragonbat13]

So if I were to wire the reverse wound coil on a humbucker in the bridge with a single coil with the phase switch in the neck position I would have a noise cancelling signal with the neck in phase and a good usable out of phase type of sound with noise right. Is this possible to do with a HSS setup?

[unklmickey]

hi Dragonbat13,

it might be easier to put the phase switch on the bridge, along with the coil-split.

you can get both the in-phase and out-of-phase to hum-cancel if you play your cards right.

i hate to start a conversation, and leave you hanging, but it's time for me to unplug for the weekend.

if you check out some of our work over at GuitarNuts2 , we do this sort of thing on a regular basis.

JohnH or ChrisK might be around there this weekend if you need help navigating.

start by finding the schematics sub-board.

you'll find lots of good ideas there.

at PG, Robert the damned seems to be knowledgeable.

i don't visit here as much, but i'm sure there are also lots of other guys that can give you some good ideas too.

L8r,

unk

[lovekraft]

But to answer your question, yes, your assumptions are correct. With the neck pickup out of phase, it won't be humbucking, but it will get you that shrill, weedy out-of-phase sound (I'm not a big out-of-phase fan - could you tell? ).

[unklmickey]

actually, if the neck is out-or-phase with the bridge coil that has the same magnetic polarity, that WILL be hum-canceling.

[Sethmetal]

actually, if the neck is out-or-phase with the bridge coil that has the same magnetic polarity, that WILL be hum-canceling.

true

[psw]

Not sure why this post has been brought up again but can recomend guitar nuts forum for all these kinds of questions. I am about to embark on a rewire of a strat HSS but deleting the middle pickup so as to experiment with a mid position sustainer. JohnH kindly offered up this diagram...

Notice this proposal includes series, parallel and series out of phase in the middle positions...a simple switch will also alow the HB pickup to be split for even more flavours....

From top to bottom it will do Neck, Neck/Bridge in series, Neck/Bridge in parallel, Neck/Bridge in series out-of-phase, and Bridge. The single-pole coil cut switch selects coil 1, except in the OoP mode where it chooses coil 2, to maintain hum-cancelling.

As to which coil is which at the bridge, that will depend on the phase and magnetic relationship of the neck and bridge pups. It may take some trial and error to get phasing and hum cancelling optimised. Ideally, I’d be looking to get coil 1 as the adjustable coil, and placed as the one furthest from the bridge. This may involve some coil connection swapping and maybe magnet flipping.

This layout has no hanging or shunted coils, which may be of importance for keeping control in a guitar with all of that other sustainer electronics happening.

Should be interesting...

pete

[Samba Pa Ti]

actually, if the neck is out-or-phase with the bridge coil that has the same magnetic polarity, that WILL be hum-canceling.

true

if the polarity is the same how does it become hum cancelling ?

i was under the impression a humbucker worked because 1 coil was north and 1 coil was south (polarities) and one of the coils was 'reversed' which is the wrong word to use really since the coil is wound the same as a normal pickup.