Headless Guitars/neck Material

[OM Guitars]

I'm currently in the process of designing a project guitar. I'm trying to decide as to whether the guitar will be headless or not. I plan to have Warmoth build the body and neck, and I plan to use mahogany for both components... is this viable? Is mahogany strong enough to be used in a headless neck? (The finger board will be ebony.)

What are the other limitations and constraints of a headless neck?

Thanks for any help...

[Acousticraft]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

[Mattia]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

lies!

(and mahogany is fine)

[chewer71]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

lies!

(and mahogany is fine)

mattia, that is BEAUTIFUL!

[OM Guitars]

mattia, that is BEAUTIFUL!

Amen. I've already requested more pics from him... how about it Mattia? I like the ABM headless bridge too. Looks really understated.

[rob_tart]

Spot on work ... love that!

[GregP]

My favourite headless design ever.

The tricky part about headless (and it's been my dream for a while too) is sourcing hardware if you want a trem. Robert Irizarry went as far as buying a MusicYo Steinberger and using the neck and bridge. By the way, for headless/ergonomic enthusiasts, he has a cool blog:

http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.blogspot.com/

I love the Klein design, but I keep waffling between the typical "broom" and something more like Mattia's. Really, Mattia's is ALL class, but I'd probably be better able to pull off the broom. <chuckle>

Although I'm too broke to even consider sourcing the parts right now, I am of the mind that the current best solution for building a headless guitar with trem, if you have the money, is the Floyd Rose Speedloader, the best price of which I found at GuitarPartsDepot.com. I just checked, though, and they only had gold left... I wonder what gives...

I worry that the Speedloader will go the way of the Betamax and leave me sourcing strings if I go that route.

---

As for the question at hand-- headless won't impact your choice of materials. I can't see any reason mahogany + ebony would cause anyone any problems whatsoever.

Greg

[westhemann]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

at the risk of being unpopular...i have to agree.

the aesthetics are the reason i have never built a headless instrument...and i have considered it often.

btw...have you considered using a speedloader for your headless?that is a very goodtrem and needs no headstock...only enough room behind the fingerboard to attach the nut.

oonly reason bc rich leaves the headstock is so that if the speedloader stops being made a regular floyd can be installed with just a few holes to be drilled...plus for looks...i think.

[OM Guitars]

Ok, so the consensus seems to be that mahogany is fine for a headless neck.

(The reason the question even occured to me was because of something I read on the Kubicki site,

Kubicki.com... note about halfway down the page, in the section "The Laminated Neck.")

Next question about making a headless... can I simply use a Floyd Rose locking nut to lock the strings at the nut? I.e. no specialized headpiece. I saw something similar on an eBay auction, here's the link to the pertinent photo: Headless, locking nut

My plan is to include a small headstock for aesthetic purposes; also, I plan to have Warmoth build the neck. This way, I can simply have them build their standard neck, with a Floyd Rose nut installed, and simply a smaller headstock. Voila, a "headless" neck from Warmoth. Please shoot holes in this plan if you can, I want to know now if it's not feasible, rather than after I've ordered parts.

PS Another advantage I'd see of using a Floyd locking nut is that I can use a wider nut. The two headpieces I've seen (the ABM and Steinberger) are I believe both 1 5/8" wide at the nut... I prefer a wider nut, and plan to order the 1 3/4" wide Floyd locking nut.

Edited December 2, 2006 by OM Guitars

[westhemann]

how will you tune it?did you read my post about the floyd speedloader?it has a special nut that just mounts like a regular floyd nut

check out the speedloader system...it is BY FAR the best way to go for what you are doing

[Canuck Brian]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

lies!

(and mahogany is fine)

....not to sound stupid, but who made this, where did the hardware come from and ....damn. I have no other words. Much respect to whoever built that.

[OM Guitars]

how will you tune it?did you read my post about the floyd speedloader?it has a special nut that just mounts like a regular floyd nut

check out the speedloader system...it is BY FAR the best way to go for what you are doing

I did read your post, and have briefly perused the Floyd and supplier websites. I'm currently planning to use the ABM headless unit, which is the same one on Mattia's guitar.

I don't need a tremolo bridge, and don't want to have to route too much wood out of the body. The reason I've decided against a Steinberger bridge is because I've owned 'bergers in the past, and believe the fact that their bridges are so massive affects the tone negatively. (I generally feel the same way about Floyd Rose trems... I base this on comparisons of nearly identical Ibanez guitars, one with a Floyd, one with a strat-style trem. The Floyd sounds "tinnier" to my ears.)

So... speaking of this special nut for the speed-loader... is it functionally any different from a standard floyd nut?

[OM Guitars]

how will you tune it?did you read my post about the floyd speedloader?it has a special nut that just mounts like a regular floyd nut

check out the speedloader system...it is BY FAR the best way to go for what you are doing

Regarding the Speedloader system... is there any place I can find more complete documentation on the bridge? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but the Floyd website seems decidedly lacking. Are those tuners on the bridge just fine tuners? From the website, I gather that you need to use custom Speedloader string sets with the bridge. This would pretty much rule out the bridge for me, as I plan to use custom sets that include flat-wound low E, A, and D strings.

Edited December 2, 2006 by OM Guitars

[westhemann]

okay...cool.

last i heard they were going to make a fixed bridge speedloader...seen that?it is very very nice...if it is now in production(i have been off the net for over a year)

whoa...flatwound?what the heck for?i thought those were a thing of the past

the floyd strings are not very "scratchy" sounding,if that is what you don't like about roundwound...i have a guitar with a speedloader and the strings are super nice

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but the Floyd website seems decidedly lacking. Are those tuners on the bridge just fine tuners?

yes...fine tuners.but you set the tuning inside it on the initial setup i believe...after that you never do anything but fine tuning...even after string change.

[OM Guitars]

okay...cool.

last i heard they were going to make a fixed bridge speedloader...seen that?it is very very nice...if it is now in production(i have been off the net for over a year)

whoa...flatwound?what the heck for?i thought those were a thing of the past

the floyd strings are not very "scratchy" sounding,if that is what you don't like about roundwound...i have a guitar with a speedloader and the strings are super nice

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but the Floyd website seems decidedly lacking. Are those tuners on the bridge just fine tuners?

yes...fine tuners.but you set the tuning inside it on the initial setup i believe...after that you never do anything but fine tuning...even after string change.

Thanks... did a quick search on "speedloader," and good old Wikipedia had a nice article on it. I definitely don't want to use a bridge system that limits the types of strings I use. I personally believe pretty strongly that the type of wound strings one uses is very important to tone. For examply, for the vintage-type sounds, I simply have not found a better string than DR Pure Blues... and as far as the flatwounds, I just like the tone for certain types of music.

On my 'bergers, I was not impressed by either the Steinberger or La Bella strings available. Then again, IMHO, 'bergers were always primarily about technology and engineering versus musicality and tone.

Edited December 2, 2006 by OM Guitars

[Robert Irizarry]

Thanks... did a quick search on "speedloader," and good old Wikipedia had a nice article on it. I definitely don't want to use a bridge system that limits the types of strings I use. I personally believe pretty strongly that the type of wound strings one uses is very important to tone. For examply, for the vintage-type sounds, I simply have not found a better string than DR Pure Blues... and as far as the flatwounds, I just like the tone for certain types of music.

If I'm not mistaken, the ABM headpiece is for use with doubleball end strings only. You could use a Floyd style or Kahler style locking nut instead which I've seen used on several headless guitars.

Regards,

Rob

[Mattia]

Mahogany is plenty strong enough for the job. Headless guitar, thats like a headless chicken, just plain ugly.

lies!

(and mahogany is fine)

....not to sound stupid, but who made this, where did the hardware come from and ....damn. I have no other words. Much respect to whoever built that.

thanks dude, And that would be my own guitar, iroko neck-thru, mahogany/iroko wings (don't reccomend iroko, though), ABM headless hardware (which accepts both double-ball and regular strings using their headpiece). 25" scale.

Sadly, no other pics, and the guitar's currently in a different country, so none more coming any time soon ;-)

[GregP]

I love not only the functionality, but also the look of headless guitars. Aesthetics are so personal. When it's taken into account as part of the whole design, the results are like Mattia's guitar-- stunning and plain old "right". Imagine Mattia's with a headstock? Eeeewwwww....

To the question at hand:

Since Speedloaders are difficult to source (only place I've seen'em is GuitarPartsDepot which now only has the gold, and Ed Roman, who I wouldn't want to deal with) I keep thinking of regular Floyd. The standard locking nut should still be fine, and you could even create a "surrogate headstock" with cheapo tuners on it to get you to pitch for the first stringing, at which time you could stretch the strings a bit, tune up again, and then use the fine tuners from there.

Could be easily done!

The other thing that appealed to me about the Speedloader was the integrated 'lock' (like the 'bergers) for when you want something akin to fixed bridge.

Wes, how have you found the Speedloader's lock-in-place mechanism? Where have you been sourcing your strings? Local music store carrying them?

Greg

[westhemann]

Wes, how have you found the Speedloader's lock-in-place mechanism? Where have you been sourcing your strings? Local music store carrying them?

Greg

i don't even know if mine has that...i think that was just added to the new ones.my local guitar center has the strings,and they work very well.

to be honest,i am more impressed with the quality of the speedloader than the regular floyd...the locking saddles are very,very nice and it has a nice smooth look and feel.