Hot Glue On Glue Action!

[Setch]

Chris - One more post questioning peoples intelligence, or claiming some kind of tenuous right of veto as to who posts in your threads, and you'll be taking a 2 week suspension.

People on this board will sometimes present opinions you disagree with, in manners you find abrupt or brusque, Unless they break the rules SUCK IT UP.

Understood?

Perry, I couldn't agree more about the distinction between the MIMF and PG. I go there to ask questions, and I come here to answer them.

P.S: Lets keep this on topic shall we - what glues stick regardless of previous contamination? Discuss...

[verhoevenc]

Firstly, i didn't use other's on my side as a basis for righteousness. You said no one else was listening, I was merely proving they were. Hell did I even say these people agreed with what I was doing? No, that's besides the point becuase I was proving simply that people WERE listening. So now who isn't reading correctly.

Also, there's a reason things are in textbooks... because they have been proven over time. And two... if you REALLY wanna get into an intelligence and "I have 2%" battle... you have no clue what you're getting into over here.

Look, case and point, this is why I'm made, I've said it a NUMBER of times, but you all seem to read the other stuff and skip over what is important about what I'm saying: "Perry, if you're going to post, please post on something that gives and ANSWER to the question in the thread. If you want to start on about how the MIMF is more informative, go make a thread about that. This was a glue thread. And lastly, IF you still do so chose to chime in, please make sure your response isn't so worded that it would intimidate someone else that might have come along to post after you. THAT is what I'm mad about here."

Chris

PS: Setch, i'm a MIMF, PG, and OLF member, I know the distinctions of each as well. And I have no issue with people preaching about any of them... just not in a thread thats not about that!

[rhoads56]

I'm saying: "Perry, if you're going to post, please post on something that gives and ANSWER to the question in the thread.

PS: Setch, i'm a MIMF, PG, and OLF member, I know the distinctions of each as well. And I have no issue with people preaching about any of them... just not in a thread thats not about that!

Then your beef is with Southpa. But, I did answer HIS question.

[westhemann]

if you REALLY wanna get into an intelligence and "I have 2%" battle... you have no clue what you're getting into over here.

i am pretty sure you just completely missed the point.but i amnot here to argue with you over who is smarter...it just does not matter.besides...you have already been thought circles around by everyone else in this thread.

i thought you wanted to talk about glue?but you questioned ME about intellect,not the other way around.my "credentials" in that area are as stated...more than sufficient to deal with you.

hmmm..well here i am getting drawn into what i said i would not.just don't expect much help around here with the attitude you are showing.i really thought that after a good night's sleep you would calm down and change your tune...but guess i gave you to much credit...i'm out of this one...i stated my case..ignore itt if you choose

by the way chris..knowing what i know about this site i think a moderator may have meant to reply but instread accidently hit the edit button on setch's post...setch is a vip and has no reason to threaten you with suspension...scott or kevan on the other hand might...and kevan does not usually make mistakes at all(he previews his posts)..and the wording and typing does not sound like maiden...so i am betting scott gave you that warning.the buttons are very close together in the moderator software and i even made the mistake before myself...deductive reasoning based on logic,my man.

could be wrong though...but chances are setch is like "wha happened?"

[Supernova9]

Wes, Setch was made a mod a while back. I think he still holds moderator access privileges. I think you missed that during your absence. Good to have you back by the way, the board can alwayas do with more voices of experience (and in the case of this thread, sanity).

Edited December 12, 2006 by Supernova9

[Setch]

Yep, I'm a mod. I opted to keep the VIP tag instead of a mod hat, so I don't really advertise the fact until I'm required to use the scary voice of zeus.

[westhemann]

Wes, Setch was made a mod a while back. I think he still holds moderator access privileges. I think you missed that during your absence. Good to have you back by the way, the board can alwayas do with more voices of experience (and in the case of this thread, sanity).

good to know...

Yep, I'm a mod. I opted to keep the VIP tag instead of a mod hat, so I don't really advertise the fact until I'm required to use the scary voice of zeus.

cool...hehe..i wish you would have told me before i looked stupid

but all i could think of when i saw that was the time i accidentally hit the edit button on some guys post instead ofthe reply...and i accidentally deleted his entire post and wrote my stuff in there instead...that was sooooo like,embarresing and stuff...

you should have had brian make you a yellow badge that says"caution...i am sooo modly"

[verhoevenc]

circles around? No, you just aren't grasping what I find important here. To me it's a matter of principal. But go ahead, you can think whatever you want. As for "don't expect... blah blah blah" although you've been gone and may have missed it I'm usually a helpful, meaningful, and kind participant of this forum. Every now and then something will get me going, like Perry. You jsut happened to come back right at this time.

I too am done with this, so anything you say from here on out in this thread, don't assume I'm not responding because i'm intimidated, or admitting wrong, cause I'm not, I'm just choosing not to waste my time argueing with you lot anymore, and am thus not going to be reading the thread from now on.

Chris

[soapbarstrat]

Wow, a thread about glues, and everyone comes unglued !

I look at it, as if the whole internet is one big "forum".

I guess it was even over on the OLF board, where I first saw the link to the woodworker forum glue article posted at the beginning of this link.

I guess some still have the "dream" that there can be one perfect forum.

I used to really like that idea, and thought of ways to make it happen. It can't. Too many ego problems everywhere for that to ever work. You've got forum operators who don't care a whole lot, or some who care way too much (making the place their little dictatorship). You've got people with pro experience who get called a hack, in a round-a-bout way, because someone else doesn't like them. You've got hacks who are freinds with pros, who get treated like they're a pro too, because of that. I see all of that on every forum. Stupid Human nature. Good luck trying to straighten that out.

[Southpa]

Then your beef is with Southpa.

Maybe in a round about way because I specifically didn't mention glues. But it did revolve around comparisons of similar products and tools and that includes glues. The nub of what Perry said was basically "Don't ask an amateur for a professional opinion." But that covers a lot of grey area and goes wayyyy back to previous discussions we had about who is who on this forum. A lot has been said here and there and some members are prepared to call a spade a spade. And I respect that. There have been lots of people giving advice, but have never built a guitar. In most cases the advice has just been a transfer of information rather that something they have actually done themselves. Thats ok, I guess. And you don't necessarily have to have a build or two under your belt to become a member of this forum.

[fryovanni]

Then your beef is with Southpa.

Maybe in a round about way because I specifically didn't mention glues. But it did revolve around comparisons of similar products and tools and that includes glues. The nub of what Perry said was basically "Don't ask an amateur for a professional opinion." But that covers a lot of grey area and goes wayyyy back to previous discussions we had about who is who on this forum. A lot has been said here and there and some members are prepared to call a spade a spade. And I respect that. There have been lots of people giving advice, but have never built a guitar. In most cases the advice has just been a transfer of information rather that something they have actually done themselves. Thats ok, I guess. And you don't necessarily have to have a build or two under your belt to become a member of this forum.

So your the trouble maker

You were on topic as it related to the stated goal.

As per a little discussion started in the acoustic chat area on how some glues will not attach to surfaces where other glues have been... lets start up a nice definitive answer to it all.

Your responce made perfect sense, and I agree that with your thoughts.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This board needs a review section for all the related products and tools used in the guitar building field. Its something that everyone can contribute to and the benefits would certainly be there. If you used tite-bond II and it sucked I'd like to be able to find that kind of info easily and know why it didn't work. Just input how and where it was used and why it failed or was successful. I know this kind of info is already in the forum....somewhere...

Perry certainly pointed out many of the potential pitfalls, and the weak spots in this membership. Recounted a couple of sour moments from the forum past/present. Also noted the strengths of other forums. All of which for better or worse rings pretty much true.

Perry, you really lost me with this-

If you think you're better than the general statements ive made about members here (i know someone will cry), then go prove yourself over at MIMF by submitting a report. Lets see how you go.

Prove yourself at the MIMF? I understand your concept(the MIMF is a rich source of information). The MIMF has a lot of very knowledgable members as well as a huge percentage of sheep and begginers. Just because it passes the MIMF "test" it does not make it absolutely correct. That board has flaws and even the best and brightest are subject to make mistakes(we are all human).

All in all you can chalk this forum up to a hopelessly ignorant group not capable of improvement. That serves as a good place to watch begginers flounder and maybe have a little fun. At least until they wise up and migrate over to the MIMF. Or you can view this as nothing more than a place to share ideas and chat, maybe help a couple people that are just trying to get a start. I dunno,... I have kinda been in the wrong place for a while(as I have been more focussed on acoustics for the last couple years). I sure do like a lot of the people on this forum though .

Peace,Rich

[rhoads56]

Perry, you really lost me with this-

If you think you're better than the general statements ive made about members here (i know someone will cry), then go prove yourself over at MIMF by submitting a report. Lets see how you go.

Prove yourself at the MIMF? I understand your concept(the MIMF is a rich source of information). The MIMF has a lot of very knowledgable members as well as a huge percentage of sheep and begginers. Just because it passes the MIMF "test" it does not make it absolutely correct. That board has flaws and even the best and brightest are subject to make mistakes(we are all human).

Ahhh, let me re-word that bit.

(long version) Basically... instead of just posting any old rubbish here, regardless of if you think its correct or not, try doing the same over at MIMF, which has a much lower tolerance for BS, and a much higher average of participating professionals who have done it before, and have the backing of many others IF they choose to stand up against those ideas/theories/whatever.

A thread here (eg: no more nails for headstock repairs, saran wrap for clamps, food dyes for stains, i could go all day...) just gets accepted and we see backslapping from other members who really have no clue (not their fault, they just arent experienced) unless a minority (minority being someone who knows better, AND is prepared to cop the flack from standing up) takes issue, and is then called unfriendly and unproductive, trouble maker, etc etc.

Which entirely falls back to my "comparison" a few posts later comparing the pitlane to the grandstand.

(or the short version) Its much harder to BS someone who has been around a bit longer (considering the numbers of pro's there, versus the number of amatuers on their first build, here), but its real easy to impress (or influence?) some people who dont know better, just by telling them any old rubbish.

It wasnt directed at anyone, more of a "whoever is reading it, think about this".

[fryovanni]

No need to re-word your statement. Like I said I understand what you said, and what you were getting at. It is undeniable that they have better checks and balances as well as stronger peer review.

To be clear about my point of confusion. Would you propose we take our topics to the MIMF. Discuss them, and then copy the posts back to this board? Abandon this board completely when it comes to any discussions of means and methods? Adopt the MIMF FAQ as our guide, and defer any topics that are not covered in that FAQ to the MIMF for review and debate(and approval).

I don't want to sound like a smart ass here Perry, and I do agree with most of what you have said. I am just trying to ask if you are only pointing out the flaws in the system or if you are offering a suggestion for a solution(or better method).

You always say to get in there and do something. Get something done and don't just make lists of parts and dream specs. I just can't tell if you are saying get it done or give it up.

Peace,Rich

[spazzyone]

i'm not sure ive read all these reply's correctly but here goes

i read guitar mags all the time but do i belive all the equipment reveiws??? absolutly not

why because they are biased

what does that have to do with this thread... its called i read between the lines

yes there are mostly "newbies" in this forum and they could not post the correct answers

to many (if any) questions that people may ask but that does not mean they cant post

i toataly understand Cris's frustration here. there are a lot of negative replys to peoples posts

Perry,Setch,Drak (and many others) had to start somewhere. and i WILL NOT question their abillitys

but negative replies do not help the learning process it restricts them

who cares about the other forums at the moment lets talk about this one

its base is not made of pro's and i dont think it was Brian's itentions for it to be all for pro's

unless i read this wrong...http://www.projectguitar.com/menu/about.htm

untill recently i had only 2 builds under my belt one is so so the other is good

now i build 50 hours a week does that make me a pro? well yes and no

when i posted the "you decide post" http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=26490

i had some slightly negative reply's

i was not asking for someone to design for me. just what people wanted to see

as i have the means/time/and experiance to pull it off in that amount of time

in reality it could be 2 weeks or less (without the finish) i was doing for fun to make a "collective" build

but its not happening now why "negativity"

My point is this Stop hurting and start helping the "newbies on this site

if your a pro then guide if not just read and absorb

remember Santa aint **** without his reindeer

P.S this rant is not about anyone person just the forum as a hole

Edited December 13, 2006 by spazzyone

[Supernova9]

i'm not sure ive read all these reply's correctly but here goes

i read guitar mags all the time but do i belive all the equipment reveiws??? absolutly not

why because they are biased

what does that have to do with this thread... its called i read between the lines

yes there are mostly "newbies" in this forum and they could not post the correct answers

to many (if any) questions that people may ask but that does not mean they cant post

i toataly understand Cris's frustration here. there are a lot of negative replys to peoples posts

Perry,Setch,Drak (and many others) had to start somewhere. and i WILL NOT question their abillitys

but negative replies do not help the learning process it restricts them

who cares about the other forums at the moment lets talk about this one

its base is not made of pro's and i dont think it was Brian's itentions for it to be all for pro's

unless i read this wrong...http://www.projectguitar.com/menu/about.htm

untill recently i had only 2 builds under my belt one is so so the other is good

now i build 50 hours a week does that make me a pro? well yes and no

when i posted the "you decide post" http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=26490

i had some slightly negative reply's

i was not asking for someone to design for me. just what people wanted to see

as i have the means/time/and experiance to pull it off in that amount of time

in reality it could be 2 weeks or less (without the finish) i was doing for fun to make a "collective" build

but its not happening now why "negativity"

My point is this Stop hurting and start helping the "newbies on this site

if your a pro then guide if not just read and absorb

remember Santa aint **** without his reindeer

P.S this rant is not about anyone person just the forum as a hole

I've just read the entirety of that thread you posted, there is incredibly little negativity in there. You even got an "in the nicest way I can" from Drak, which is far less blunt than he's known for. What negativity on there made you stop building? From that thread you never mentioned not doing the build, never raised an issue of negativity in the thread, you just stopped posting updates. You're not asking for any suggestions other than body shape, so it's hardly an 'interactive' build.

That said, I understand what some of you guys are saying about letting people voice their opinion and make suggestions on stuff, and I'm all for it, but there are some things where it is DANGEROUS for poor information to be propagated. For example, a certain tutorial used to exist that was incredibly unsafe, and could have resulted in people being seriously injured should they follow it. That's where the murky waters come in. It's all a balance, between avoiding that kind of stuff and encouraging people to discuss/share opinion. I'd hate to have newbies unable to post at all because they've cut off all their fingers following poor advice.

[spazzyone]

well you are right negative is a little harsh

and i love Drak and value his opinion Highly

the build continues just not in that manner as no one had any suggestions

other than Fry or Cherokee oh well im still on trak although i did forget to post the pic

its there now and shows that i did take some inspiration from Fry

the pic shows my Rich next to the back of the blank

[rhoads56]

No need to re-word your statement. Like I said I understand what you said, and what you were getting at. It is undeniable that they have better checks and balances as well as stronger peer review.

To be clear about my point of confusion. Would you propose we take our topics to the MIMF. Discuss them, and then copy the posts back to this board? Abandon this board completely when it comes to any discussions of means and methods? Adopt the MIMF FAQ as our guide, and defer any topics that are not covered in that FAQ to the MIMF for review and debate(and approval).

I don't want to sound like a smart ass here Perry, and I do agree with most of what you have said. I am just trying to ask if you are only pointing out the flaws in the system or if you are offering a suggestion for a solution(or better method).

You always say to get in there and do something. Get something done and don't just make lists of parts and dream specs. I just can't tell if you are saying get it done or give it up.

Peace,Rich

No, i was simply saying that making a DATABASE OF REVIEWS, like suggested by southpa, and many others before him, was a waste of time for THIS forum, when something already existed, and was freely available. I think a FAQ would be great, and in fact at one stage it WAS happening, but obviously the interest was lost.

Nothing wrong with discussion, but when your talking about a database of reviews, thats a totally different concept.

[Drak]

<Drak, lighting a marlboro, peacefully contemplating the Serenity of the Cosmos Infinite...>

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

[westhemann]

angel of death...monarch to the kingdom of the dead

infamous butcher........angel of death

or...

i hate everyone equally

you can't tear that out of me

no segregation,seperation

just me and my world of enemies

slayer just has a way of putting things into perspective.

[Southpa]

Meanwhile back in the year One --- when you belonged to no-one ---

you didn't stand a chance son, if your pants were undone.

`Cause you were bred for humanity and sold to society ---

one day you'll wake up in the Present Day ---

a million generations removed from expectations

of being who you really want to be.

Skating away ---

skating away ---

skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.

So as you push off from the shore,

won't you turn your head once more --- and make your peace with everyone?

For those who choose to stay,

will live just one more day ---

to do the things they should have done.

And as you cross the wilderness, spinning in your emptiness:

you feel you have to pray.

Looking for a sign

that the Universal Mind (!) has written you into the Passion Play.

Skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.

And as you cross the circle line, the ice-wall creaks behind ---

you're a rabbit on the run.

And the silver splinters fly in the corner of your eye ---

shining in the setting sun.

Well, do you ever get the feeling that the story's

too damn real and in the present tense?

Or that everybody's on the stage, and it seems like

you're the only person sitting in the audience?

Skating away on the thin ice of the New Day.

[fryovanni]

No need to re-word your statement. Like I said I understand what you said, and what you were getting at. It is undeniable that they have better checks and balances as well as stronger peer review.

To be clear about my point of confusion. Would you propose we take our topics to the MIMF. Discuss them, and then copy the posts back to this board? Abandon this board completely when it comes to any discussions of means and methods? Adopt the MIMF FAQ as our guide, and defer any topics that are not covered in that FAQ to the MIMF for review and debate(and approval).

I don't want to sound like a smart ass here Perry, and I do agree with most of what you have said. I am just trying to ask if you are only pointing out the flaws in the system or if you are offering a suggestion for a solution(or better method).

You always say to get in there and do something. Get something done and don't just make lists of parts and dream specs. I just can't tell if you are saying get it done or give it up.

Peace,Rich

No, i was simply saying that making a DATABASE OF REVIEWS, like suggested by southpa, and many others before him, was a waste of time for THIS forum, when something already existed, and was freely available. I think a FAQ would be great, and in fact at one stage it WAS happening, but obviously the interest was lost.

Nothing wrong with discussion, but when your talking about a database of reviews, thats a totally different concept.

That makes sense. It would be a huge task, and would require a great deal of attension to ensure "bad" or even dangerous advise was removed. I personally have no issue referencing the MIMF FAQ(and do so often). It is good pretty solid info and like Perry mentioned it is freely available. I do the same with the woodworkers handbook(the USFS makes available a LOT of free information and testing results) and I consider it pretty impartial and reliable. There are other sources and databases that I could add to a list. Maybe developing the reference links page would be a good idea, or possibly making those links more easier to find in some sort of link/subject/topic database. I dunno.

Peace,Rich

[Drak]

< Drak, in full blown continental concious reality now, demonstrating The Freedom of the I >

Old pirates, yes, they rob i;

Sold I to the merchant ships,

Minutes after they took i

From the bottomless pit.

But my hand was made strong

By the and of the almighty.

We forward in this generation

Triumphantly.

Wont you help to sing

These songs of freedom? -

cause all I ever have:

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;

None but ourselves can free our minds.

Have no fear for atomic energy,

cause none of them can stop the time.

How long shall they kill our prophets,

While we stand aside and look? ooh!

Some say its just a part of it:

Weve got to fulfil de book.

Wont you help to sing

These songs of freedom? -

cause all I ever have:

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs;

Redemption songs.

[spazzyone]

007 inthe sky with the sun

in a super survailance SR 71

this man holds the secret key

now he starts deprograming

ive got agents on my back in three peice suits and a black sedan

and i know there all watching meeeeeee

he's an infared cowboy that hides in the dark

that shoots me with the petathol and makes me talk

taps my phone

he's the sweat on my neck

he's the tap on my shoulder that i never expect

ive got agents on my back in three peice suits and a black sedan

and i know there all watching meee

no place to run

no time to buy

no shoulder to cry on

no place to hide

who do i trust

who do i blame

when the mordern witch hunt calls my name

ive got agents on my back in three peice suits and a black sedan

and i know there all watching meeeeeeeeeeeeeee

007 inthe sky with the sun

in a super survailance SR 71

this man holds the secret key

now he starts deprograming

ive got agents on my back in three peice suits and a black sedan

and i know there all watching meeeeeee

[soapbarstrat]

Silent night, holy night

All is calm, all is bright

Round yon Virgin Mother and Child

Holy Infant so tender and mild

Sleep in heavenly peace

Sleep in heavenly peace

Silent night, holy night!

Shepherds quake at the sight

Glories stream from heaven afar

Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!

Christ, the Saviour is born

Christ, the Saviour is born

(Throaty Les Paul guitar solo)

Silent night, holy night

Son of God, love's pure light

Radiant beams from Thy holy face

With the dawn of redeeming grace

Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth

Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth "

[AlGeeEater]

Well, this just got real interesting.