Guitar Build-off?

[low end fuzz]

anyone interested in a 'total friendly' build off?

basically not a race; but inside a certain time frame; no cncs; nothing that you already have every template for (personal production guitars) original designs; mostly (i know what im comfortable doing in the way of 'structure' and wouldnt vere entirely off) and maybe some PG VIPs would volenteer to scrutinize the builds?

but the main objective is documenting every step, which should also come into judgment; about how well you describe each step and why its being done (or why you think others ways are stoopid)

building instruments isnt a competition, but i think one round could be fun!

[rhoads56]

If you're going to do this, i suggest a thorough read of the LAST build off we had:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...mp;hl=cariburst

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=4166

You'll see some of the problems that crop up, and plan for it in advance. Heaps more members here now, so chances of getting it going are better.

[fryovanni]

Sounds like it could be fun. If it is a contest to be judged by a select group. I want the guitars in their hands so they can judge playability, fit and finish. If it is just pictures a general vote seems more than fine. If there was an auction for the forum or charity associated with the competition. That would be cool. It would be cool if the build off had say 3 options for model(say one solid bod, one carved, and one full Archtop-same basic shape slight size variation is cool), and no limit to finish or details. No tutorials or schooling till the product is done(progress shots are fine and all that).

Peace,Rich

[Canuck Brian]

What kind of timeframe are we talking? I'd be interested as I'm actually able to use my shop again (surgery sucks.)

[low end fuzz]

ya it seemed like there was 'a lot of hot air' in those posts; (previuos build-off)

ithink it could work if there was a set of rules that were presented as a' challenge'

as opose to discussing over every lil item; i think rich has the right idea;

as far as time; thats a hard one, because rushing is the best way to **** up a 5A piece o' wood;

but if theres any kind of contest, it cant span over into the 22nd century; nor hold up regular money maker , so you can buy donuts

ive taken months to get guitars finished!

competing would put a lil priority into it; but i wouldnt set it;

im gonna think a lil more; and read over those threads a bit closer and see if my giant brain can come up with something sensible.

please leave me input

[Jon]

Definitely! I've got a few cool projects brewing up.

[croaticum]

I cant get to the build-off 'cos i have some probs with my workshop so.......

I like the idea.

My sugestions

10 days to build guitar

10 days to paint it

10 days to fine tune it and all finishing touches.

24 hours to post finished guitar with specs and pix

It would be good to talk to Brian or some other moderator to open new topic "BUILD_OFF" or something so any of you guys in it can post pics of your progress.

It would be good to set some standards for building.

To be honest it would be more of how it looks rather than what is the guitar playability etc, so it wouldnt hurt to have sound clips.

I'll think of some more lol

[spazzyone]

I cant get to the build-off 'cos i have some probs with my workshop so.......

I like the idea.

My sugestions

10 days to build guitar

10 days to paint it

10 days to fine tune it and all finishing touches.

24 hours to post finished guitar with specs and pix

It would be good to talk to Brian or some other moderator to open new topic "BUILD_OFF" or something so any of you guys in it can post pics of your progress.

It would be good to set some standards for building.

To be honest it would be more of how it looks rather than what is the guitar playability etc, so it wouldnt hurt to have sound clips.

I'll think of some more lol

dude i build 50 hours a week at work so 10 days at home is not possible

and 10 days to paint? only UV reactive finish could be done properly in that time

but if you want to go head to head no bounderies ill do the 10 HA.HA

but im in depending on whats allowed and the time frame

[fryovanni]

I cant get to the build-off 'cos i have some probs with my workshop so.......

I like the idea.

My sugestions

10 days to build guitar

10 days to paint it

10 days to fine tune it and all finishing touches.

24 hours to post finished guitar with specs and pix

It would be good to talk to Brian or some other moderator to open new topic "BUILD_OFF" or something so any of you guys in it can post pics of your progress.

It would be good to set some standards for building.

To be honest it would be more of how it looks rather than what is the guitar playability etc, so it wouldnt hurt to have sound clips.

I'll think of some more lol

Those time lines would not work for most people on the board(we have jobs, family, and other responcibilities). That also limits a person from being able to add fine details that require time such as shell purflind, inlay, air brush work etc... However, given you would be comfortable building in that time frame. Maybe a more realistic time frame for the rest of us would allow you time to get your shop in order, and get back in.

I think sound clips are fine, but not much better than a pic is for evaluating fit and finish. If there is a judged "competition" you have to have the guitar in the hands of the judge. I suspect this will only be something similar to GOTM which does not really evaluate the instrument any more than looks and general design.

I would offer a suggestion as to rules and regs. Let the guys that finished guitars in that last attempt set the rules and guildlines. They can present them, and if you take issue speak your peace before anything starts. If in their judgement the modification would be acceptable so be it, if they see it as problematic their "no" is final. If this idea works out and it goes over. Then participants that complete guitars would be able to shape the next.(Just a thought).

Peace,Rich

[rhoads56]

dude i build 50 hours a week at work so 10 days at home is not possible

and 10 days to paint? only UV reactive finish could be done properly in that time

but if you want to go head to head no bounderies ill do the 10 HA.HA

but im in depending on whats allowed and the time frame

WEAK!!

I built this baby in 9 days, from deposit placed, to delivery at the start of the national tour they were playing on.

Thats a nitro finish you see there too

No skimping either, full abalone logo on the headstock

If i can do it, so can you

Andy's Baritone

I suspect this will only be something similar to GOTM which does not really evaluate the instrument any more than looks and general design.

Blasphemy!!!

The GOTM is judged on a tough set of rules, including personal friendships, previous wins, and status of the builder (lower the better!). Its taken many years to get this totally backwards way of voting, so dont you dare devalue that hard work!!

[spazzyone]

WEAK!!

IBlasphemy!!!

Its taken many years to get this totally backwards way of voting,

Now thats funny

[guitar2005]

WEAK!!

I built this baby in 9 days, from deposit placed, to delivery at the start of the national tour they were playing on.

Thats a nitro finish you see there too

If i can do it, so can you

I'm not sure if that's sarcastic or not...

Most of us don't build guitars for a living. Its a hobby. We have jobs and responsablities that take up a lot of our time.

The timelines (30days) for a build from absolute scratch is impossible for me and probably most people here.

[Maiden69]

Blasphemy!!!

The GOTM is judged on a tough set of rules, including personal friendships, previous wins, and status of the builder (lower the better!). Its taken many years to get this totally backwards way of voting, so dont you dare devalue that hard work!!

I want to be nice and don't say anything but I will have to say that I concour! Points taken for this or that....etc... I got some ideas going for the GOTM, but they don't work in this forum, I'll see what I can do later!!!

[verhoevenc]

I gotta agree with Rich. If this contest is going to be ANYTHING but another GOTM then it has to involve judges playing the guitars. What we should find is the largest concentration of whom we consider "pro" and send all the guitars entered to them. That way, since they all live near each other, we get the most pros evaluating them and pay the least since they can all meet up in one place, ie: one shipping cost. I also have to agree that most of us can't get things done fast. I personally think that something like '6 months from now' would be do-able and safe for most.

Chris

[fryovanni]

dude i build 50 hours a week at work so 10 days at home is not possible

and 10 days to paint? only UV reactive finish could be done properly in that time

but if you want to go head to head no bounderies ill do the 10 HA.HA

but im in depending on whats allowed and the time frame

WEAK!!

I built this baby in 9 days, from deposit placed, to delivery at the start of the national tour they were playing on.

Thats a nitro finish you see there too

No skimping either, full abalone logo on the headstock

If i can do it, so can you

Andy's Baritone

That is amazing I would have thought that was at least 10 or 11 days worth of guitar

I suspect this will only be something similar to GOTM which does not really evaluate the instrument any more than looks and general design.

Blasphemy!!! :angry

The GOTM is judged on a tough set of rules, including personal friendships, previous wins, and status of the builder (lower the better!). Its taken many years to get this totally backwards way of voting, so dont you dare devalue that hard work!!

Well my friends are better so they should win. I can't vote for a greedy multiple winner(as we all know you peak as a builder and it is all down hill from there). Backwards voting is difficult. It took a lot of prctice with mirrors to get used to working the mouse and click the right spot. I didn't mean to offend your triple win-a-tude. I will vote for you next time you enter to make it up to ya

I gotta agree with Rich. If this contest is going to be ANYTHING but another GOTM then it has to involve judges playing the guitars. What we should find is the largest concentration of whom we consider "pro" and send all the guitars entered to them. That way, since they all live near each other, we get the most pros evaluating them and pay the least since they can all meet up in one place, ie: one shipping cost. I also have to agree that most of us can't get things done fast. I personally think that something like '6 months from now' would be do-able and safe for most.

Chris

I think Chris has nailed it,but i think Perry should send his entry directly to me for evaluation and critique. I believe I would be very complete in my evaluation(much more so than others). I should be able to send the guitar back in 4 to 6 years .

Peace,Rich

[spazzyone]

Well my friends are better so they should win. I can't vote for a greedy multiple winner(as we all know you peak as a builder and it is all down hill from there). Backwards voting is difficult. It took a lot of prctice with mirrors to get used to working the mouse and click the right spot. I didn't mean to offend your triple win-a-tude. I will vote for you next time you enter to make it up to ya

[

now thats funnier

Edited December 15, 2006 by spazzyone

[verhoevenc]

Send it to you Rich!? Naw.... if he's up for a REAL challenge he sends it to ME and sees if the review is positive. That would be a true challenge. But all joking aside, I think this could be a really fun project. And as for what someone said about an charity auction later (was that you once again Rich) I think that'd be a GREAT idea. And then the forum, instead of having to hire PBS money collection experts (Mikro: lol, j/k buddy) we could have a lump sum of money sitting around to always be able to undertake our charitable actions whenever we want without having to wait around for money to roll in.

I also think that perhaps the idea of a monetary cap on the entries should be placed. IE: you can only use $X on your build, further leveling the playing field. I mean, if we want this to TRUELY be a "who can take stuff and make a great guitar" then the monetary cap would make sense... cause on most occasions, the guy that can afford to throw in SD blackbacks is going to have a sonic advantage over the guy that can only afford to throw in some used Ibanez humbuckers he picked up off ebay (ESPECIALLY if that person is then assumed to throw his build up for auction... not that they may not be charitable, but some can't afford as MUCH charity as others). And lastly, before anyone argues this point: no a monetary cap won't limit people's abilities to make a great guitar. If anything, it'll force them to make BETTER, because the cap will force them to concentrate the money in areas that will lead to it's best use. IE: if someone is GREAT at something they can concentrate their skills there, while concentrating their money on their not so good parts... call it the great equilizer?

But as always, jsut thoughts/suggestions.

Chris

Edited December 15, 2006 by verhoevenc

[MiKro]

SNIP>>>>>>>>>> money collection experts (Mikro: lol, j/k buddy) <<<<<<<<<<SNIP

Chris

I only wish I was a MONEY COLLECTION EXPERT If I was, we would have more than plenty of $ for the BP Tribute and some extra for the family as well.

Thanks for the kind words though Chris.

Merry Christmas to you and everyone on the forum as well

MIke

[fryovanni]

Send it to you Rich!? Naw.... if he's up for a REAL challenge he sends it to ME and sees if the review is positive. That would be a true challenge. But all joking aside, I think this could be a really fun project. And as for what someone said about an charity auction later (was that you once again Rich) I think that'd be a GREAT idea. And then the forum, instead of having to hire PBS money collection experts (Mikro: lol, j/k buddy) we could have a lump sum of money sitting around to always be able to undertake our charitable actions whenever we want without having to wait around for money to roll in.

I also think that perhaps the idea of a monetary cap on the entries should be placed. IE: you can only use $X on your build, further leveling the playing field. I mean, if we want this to TRUELY be a "who can take stuff and make a great guitar" then the monetary cap would make sense... cause on most occasions, the guy that can afford to throw in SD blackbacks is going to have a sonic advantage over the guy that can only afford to throw in some used Ibanez humbuckers he picked up off ebay (ESPECIALLY if that person is then assumed to throw his build up for auction... not that they may not be charitable, but some can't afford as MUCH charity as others). And lastly, before anyone argues this point: no a monetary cap won't limit people's abilities to make a great guitar. If anything, it'll force them to make BETTER, because the cap will force them to concentrate the money in areas that will lead to it's best use. IE: if someone is GREAT at something they can concentrate their skills there, while concentrating their money on their not so good parts... call it the great equilizer?

But as always, jsut thoughts/suggestions.

Chris

I would really like to see this turn into an auction for the site. I don't really think a cap on anything is needed. This is NOT a brutal contest(any comp would be in fun). However... I seem to recall Brian had mentioned wanting to develop a newsletter/e-zine/or full on magazine. I would love to see some fund raising to allow for something of that nature. It is just a thought, but like I said I believe the guys who made guitars in the first round would be the ones I would look to for direction. They put the effort and followed through.

Peace,Rich

P.S. Mike take a look at this unpromted responce to help a fellow member on the OLF.

this

and this

this also

It really inspires me to know how much people really can care about each other, and to see a person that gives so much offered supported without the need to ask. The OLF is an amazing group of people.

Edited December 15, 2006 by fryovanni

[MiKro]

Send it to you Rich!? Naw.... if he's up for a REAL challenge he sends it to ME and sees if the review is positive. That would be a true challenge. But all joking aside, I think this could be a really fun project. And as for what someone said about an charity auction later (was that you once again Rich) I think that'd be a GREAT idea. And then the forum, instead of having to hire PBS money collection experts (Mikro: lol, j/k buddy) we could have a lump sum of money sitting around to always be able to undertake our charitable actions whenever we want without having to wait around for money to roll in.

I also think that perhaps the idea of a monetary cap on the entries should be placed. IE: you can only use $X on your build, further leveling the playing field. I mean, if we want this to TRUELY be a "who can take stuff and make a great guitar" then the monetary cap would make sense... cause on most occasions, the guy that can afford to throw in SD blackbacks is going to have a sonic advantage over the guy that can only afford to throw in some used Ibanez humbuckers he picked up off ebay (ESPECIALLY if that person is then assumed to throw his build up for auction... not that they may not be charitable, but some can't afford as MUCH charity as others). And lastly, before anyone argues this point: no a monetary cap won't limit people's abilities to make a great guitar. If anything, it'll force them to make BETTER, because the cap will force them to concentrate the money in areas that will lead to it's best use. IE: if someone is GREAT at something they can concentrate their skills there, while concentrating their money on their not so good parts... call it the great equilizer?

But as always, jsut thoughts/suggestions.

Chris

I would really like to see this turn into an auction for the site. I don't really think a cap on anything is needed. This is NOT a brutal contest(any comp would be in fun). However... I seem to recall Brian had mentioned wanting to develop a newsletter/e-zine/or full on magazine. I would love to see some fund raising to allow for something of that nature. It is just a thought, but like I said I believe the guys who made guitars in the first round would be the ones I would look to for direction. They put the effort and followed through.

Peace,Rich

P.S. Mike take a look at this unpromted responce to help a fellow member on the OLF.

this

and this

this also

It really inspires me to know how much people really can care about each other, and to see a person that gives so much offered supported without the need to ask. The OLF is an amazing group of people.

Rich,

Thanks for bringing these examples of unselfish giving to this forums attention. Hopefully many others here will understand the true meaning of their message. We as a group have extended ourselves beyond the local realm of visual contact and physical acuity by interacting here online. With that, friendships and understanding have been established. Family can include the extended existence of those we cannot touch or see as are ones many distant relatives even if far removed, they are still family.

This forum of so many diverse individuals with a common thread is a family as well. Some laugh, argue,agree, and disagree, they move on, as life dictates, we have and will continue to lose those that God has chosen to have with him as well These are just the things that happen with large families. Families do this as one, we also cry together when there is a loss. So helping each other should not be such a hard thing here as well. Unfortunately, many people see the online communities as a free for all or at minimum, I paid, WHAT DO I GET??? While I'm not trying to knock anyone here, since this group is one of the finest bunch I've had the privledge of being involved with. I learn something everyday. It matters not what the age of the person I learn from is, it is that I learn. I thank everyone here for that. The season of giving is here so help those in need and less fortunate than yourself wherever you are.

With that I'll get off my soapbox and say to everyone here, I wish each and everyone a Most Heartfelt Holiday Season, may God Bless each and everyone of you.

Sincerely,

Mike

Edited December 15, 2006 by MiKro

[Inisheer]

Rich, thanks for showing us those links. I agree that it is nice to see to such acts of kindness. It is great that people can get so close on a forum and are willing to help each other that much. That said, I am not able to help anyone at the moment, but I hope that someday I will be able to help like that. Money is limited right now, but this charity idea has my full moral support. Also, thanks for the links....I have never seen that site before but it looks like it will be another helpful place to look at.

MiKro, Merry Christmas to you and everyone else too.

-Mike

[MiKro]

Rich, thanks for showing us those links. I agree that it is nice to see to such acts of kindness. It is great that people can get so close on a forum and are willing to help each other that much. That said, I am not able to help anyone at the moment, but I hope that someday I will be able to help like that. Money is limited right now, but this charity idea has my full moral support. Also, thanks for the links....I have never seen that site before but it looks like it will be another helpful place to look at.

MiKro, Merry Christmas to you and everyone else too.

-Mike

Thanks Mike and no apologies are needed for not being in a position to help at this time. YOU contributing to this thread is help in itself through your written support. So Merry Christmas to you as well.

MK

[rhoads56]

... cause on most occasions, the guy that can afford to throw in SD blackbacks is going to have a sonic advantage

Looks like some has been somewhat brainwashed by that pesky garden gnome

Send it to you Rich!? Naw.... if he's up for a REAL challenge he sends it to ME and sees if the review is positive. That would be a true challenge.

Id almost take that challenge if you werent so damn far away.

[Mickguard]

Send it to you Rich!? Naw.... if he's up for a REAL challenge he sends it to ME and sees if the review is positive. That would be a true challenge.

Id almost take that challenge if you werent so damn far away.

Tell you what, I'm about halfway between you guys...send it to me first, I'll get it to Chris, um, well, sometime.

[biliousfrog]

how about:

1. A design-off

Members who have some good ideas but maybe not the time, money, tools, experience to dedicate to a build-off at this time. They could all work towards an original design, maybe with some constraints such as pickups, bridge, woods etc. This can then be judged & the winning design is used for

2. The build-off.

Members are given the winning design & have to build it to the specifications set within a certain timeframe.

The advantages to this are:

- Everyone can get involved whether they have a fully fitted workshop or just a pen & paper

- The builders get to work for a client (the designer). They will be given specifications & a deadline to work to just like a real commision.

- People new to the forum can see how different builders tackle a particular problem & the pro's/con's of each method.

- The designs & the builds can be judged seperately preventing a great design being let down by poor execution & vice-versa.....it also prevents builders from adding "design features" when something goes wrong.

- the winning designer get their design realised

- If the guitars are auctioned off, they would be more like a small production run collectors item than a one-off by some random builder. There's so many one-off, custom made, luthier guitars on ebay & most are by ameteurs so these would be something a bit different.