Guitar Build Off...entrants Poll

[Mattia]

I was kind of thinking solid corner blocks that the sides fit into like on a pointy cutaway (cant remember if thats venetian or florentine),

Easy way to remember which is which:

Venetian -> Venus -> Curvy and sexy -> rounded.

Florentine is like the city, a bit prickly, but refined.

[fryovanni]

WezV-

although an acoustic archtop explorer might be interesting

- Now that would be tricky to bend those sides, but it would be a big box. Now an Explorer Acoustic would be cool. Almost dovetail esc.

Peace,Rich

I think this is going to be a lot of fun. Seems to be a lot of great guys entering.

Actually i was thinking you could use corner blocks and not have to bend a thing, be a strange carve on it though!

Corner blocks? Break the sides up(or joint) at each corner? I figure the corners could be bent just fine, but it would be tricky to make sure they were spot on and still keep the straight lines stright(it seems like it would be a challenge, but dang cool).

I was kind of thinking solid corner blocks that the sides fit into like on a pointy cutaway (cant remember if thats venetian or florentine), it could be done with some cool binding and purfling stripes to form a frame for each straight side bit. I would probably still bend the waist and cutaway section but it would get rid of the need for the really tight bends on the points. I reckon you would also need to make a sturdy mold for construction, might be a bit flimsy till top and back were glued on.

I aint gonna build owt like this but the point is that body style does not dictate build style, might not sound great as an acoustic instrument though

I got ya. That would work. It would be tuff to get good stiffness in the sides, but were theres a problem there is a clever solution.

I think experiance should be a factor as well, Im in this less then a year.

No, I don't think we need that. The judges will have descretion to judge as they please, and I am sure they will be more than fair. This is for fun and to feed off each others energy in a good natured competition. This ain't bracket racing. Look at it this way we all walk away with great guitars. That is a pretty good prize!

Drak- +++1, well said

[Simo]

No, I don't think we need that. The judges will have descretion to judge as they please, and I am sure they will be more than fair. This is for fun and to feed off each others energy in a good natured competition. This ain't bracket racing. Look at it this way we all walk away with great guitars. That is a pretty good prize!

+1

That's why I'd like the chosen guitar to be a Tele, the original guitar is simple so the less experienced people won't be put off entering and the more experienced guys can still go to town with carved tops, binding, inlays if they want to.

[fryovanni]

No, I don't think we need that. The judges will have descretion to judge as they please, and I am sure they will be more than fair. This is for fun and to feed off each others energy in a good natured competition. This ain't bracket racing. Look at it this way we all walk away with great guitars. That is a pretty good prize!

+1

That's why I'd like the chosen guitar to be a Tele, the original guitar is simple so the less experienced people won't be put off entering and the more experienced guys can still go to town with carved tops, binding, inlays if they want to.

I am in favor of having the LP,Tele,PRS,Explorer, and Strat or whatever. What are we really going to gain from limiting the body to only one? I think the only thing we will accomplish is to close the door on some people. Personally I would trade some uniformity for participation. I am sure the judges can handle the variety.

The question will be raised. So what makes this different from GOTM. The answer is the judging, time frame, entrant contribution and or possible prize or charity.

Peace,Rich

[spazzyone]

as to the acoustic explorer it has been done

takamine (spellcheck) made one

and then there is this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUex6q6kyTI

[Simo]

I am in favor of having the LP,Tele,PRS,Explorer, and Strat or whatever. What are we really going to gain from limiting the body to only one? I think the only thing we will accomplish is to close the door on some people. Personally I would trade some uniformity for participation. I am sure the judges can handle the variety.

I'm in favour of that... I want to build a solid body nylon strung guitar next so that would be good for me

Edited December 19, 2006 by Simo

[erikbojerik]

Oh yeah, Melvyn. Yeah, get him onto the panel of judges!

Anyway, looks like we're all running #2 to the hollowbody carve-top explorer!

[westhemann]

it's your contest...we can hold a poll next week as to shapes permitted...or opening it to everything.

but keep in mind that just making whatever you would have made anyway is not going to get your creativity flowing the way it would if you had to make a certain guitar.

look at it this way...yeah...a tele is a basic guitar..it cab be dressed up and all that,but why do it just because new guys would be "put off" with something harder?if,for example,you all decided on a les paul...nothing else...has to be a les paul...well then right there you have a complex(sort of) guitar which might challenge you to better yourself.

but it's not my competition...we will hold polls for all these decisions..but it seems a if you are already trying to water it down into gotm.

gotm is already there.

The question will be raised. So what makes this different from GOTM. The answer is the judging, time frame, entrant contribution and or possible prize or charity.

not much of a difference.basically this means you are just paying for the pleasure of electing judges who will grade the guitars on build quality rather than "oh that one just looks cool,and even though it's really sloppy and crooked,i vote for it cuz that dude aint but 12 y/o!"

is that enough of a difference for you?

don't you guys think it would be cooler to say "look,these are the guitars you can build,so get to thinking how yours can be the bast it can be,and try to out create the guy next to you using the same canvas"?

[fryovanni]

but it's not my competition...we will hold polls for all these decisions..but it seems a if you are already trying to water it down into gotm.

gotm is already there.

The question will be raised. So what makes this different from GOTM. The answer is the judging, time frame, entrant contribution and or possible prize or charity.

not much of a difference.basically this means you are just paying for the pleasure of electing judges who will grade the guitars on build quality rather than "oh that one just looks cool,and even though it's really sloppy and crooked,i vote for it cuz that dude aint but 12 y/o!"

is that enough of a difference for you?

don't you guys think it would be cooler to say "look,these are the guitars you can build,so get to thinking how yours can be the bast it can be,and try to out create the guy next to you using the same canvas"?

I couldn't dis-agree more, but others may agree with your take. If that is the case so be it.

One.... of the reasons the first attempt at this type of comp failed. (IMO) Was the fact it was based around a limited theme. Now I watched it back then and had no interest in doing a burst like that(not bad, but I had no desire to do that). I would hope this time through greater participation we can make this thing happen. If I had seen poll asking for entrants in a Tele build off. I would have never even given it a second look(just not my thing). We have a lot of guys that can build great guitars, but it is a diverse lot that are experimenting in different areas. Just my take.

Peace,Rich

[Drak]

If I keep hearin' people dissin' on Telecasters, there's gonna be Trouble in Brighton tonight.

[fryovanni]

If I keep hearin' people dissin' on Telecasters, there's gonna be Trouble in Brighton tonight.

just not my thing

[westhemann]

We have a lot of guys that can build great guitars, but it is a diverse lot that are experimenting in different areas.

true...and that diversity is already celebrated once a month in gotm.

just my opinion...but as a spectator i would much rather see a build off between similar guitar styles...why?just seems cooler to me.

i personally am not even keen on throwing in an explorer,even though i am building one and i like them alot...a build off between only explorers would be super cool,but between explorers,lp's,and dc's,with teles thrown in for good measure?

well,if you do that,the judges personal preferences are inevitably going to come into play.

again "my opinion" which has no real bearing as i am not an entrant.but the BEST way to judge build ability is between similar styles of guitars...see my point?how do you judge build quality between such dissimilar instruments?

i am open to anything,and i will help get it started and discerning what you guys want through polling...

i guess it doesn't matter as of yet.

i think what we will do is have an entrants poll at the end of the week for to narrown the choices to 2 or 3 guitar styles(by number of votes)...THEN after that vote is over,hold a runoff poll with 2 choices

1)thes styles of guiars only(as decided in the poll

2)open to everything

sound fair?

[AlGeeEater]

Just to clarify what I mean by archtop. Benedetto Guitars

So, it looks like it's me vs. Rich eh?

Chris

[WezV]

An archtop is a primarily acoustic guitar, made with deep bent sides like an acoustic but with a top and back that is carved or pressed into an arch like a violin style instrument. It doesnt include things like 335s which have a centre block and is quite thin and are primarily electric instruments. That falls into the semi-acoustic catagory.

Since we only seem to be specifying shape and this is more of a construction method i think it is fine - obviously easier if we end up picking the LP shape rather than the explorer , although an acoustic archtop explorer might be interesting

Just to clarify what I mean by archtop. Benedetto Guitars

So, it looks like it's me vs. Rich eh?

Chris

Why didnt i just link to the benedetto site to try and define what an archtop was Picture being worth a thousand words and all that.

I wonder if benedetto will do me a archtop explorer

Some people will refer to a normal solid les paul as an archtop, but it should really be refered to as a carved top to save confusion.

[Doeringer]

To me it doesn't matter too much which guitar we decide to make or if we open it up. I see plusses and minuses to both. I would like to see it vary from the GOTM as much as possible, and if we could talk Melvyn into being a judge, that would be an extra feather in the cap to the winner.

[fryovanni]

Just to clarify what I mean by archtop. Benedetto Guitars

So, it looks like it's me vs. Rich eh?

Chris

You call that a contest! . I may just have to PM you a few times when I am stuck on design issues. I have very little experience with Archtops(that is why I really want to play with them more).

Well I dunno. Everyone has very valid points. I know I am a pretty liberal thinker and don't really think in terms of competition(at least in the classic sense) when it comes to this hobby. I also do not put much into evaluating a guitar with pictures alone, and that is where I draw my focus on participation and fun as a priority. Others may be looking for something very different to me from this event. I respect that, and will see what the people say in the poles.

Peace,Rich

P.S. So it looks like somewhere between 15 and 20 guys so far! Very cool.

[Drak]

You know, as the postings continue, I'm having a more and more difficult time figuring out how this competition is ANY different than a typical GOTM really.

With the Carriburst, the primary difference was that the FINISH was the CENTERPOINT of the whole thing.

There was a central theme for which everyone was competing for.

There is none of that here, there is no central theme at all, the only variant I see from GOTM is that there will be a different judging process, that's it. And if that's all there is, what kind of competition is that in the end?

None, as far as I can see. Almost ridiculous really.

Did anyone here know that there once was a famous contest among the top archtop builders to all build a blue archtop? Do a search for the Blue Guitar Contest, there was even a book written about it.

See, it had a central THEME, like the Carriburst did. There was a COMMONALITY among all the entries.

What's going on here, I see NO theme at ALL, it's just a disconnected, disjointed mini-GOTM in some kinda way.

I DO see a lot of RATIONALIZING from people as to how this is different from a GOTM, but in reality, I see no difference at ALL.

If someone would CLEARLY spell out to me what everyone is actually competing for, and how that actually differs from the GOTM, I would be most appreciative.

As I am prone to saying, 'all ideas are not worth pursuing, some are best left to vanish in the wind from whence they came'...

Not a sermon, just a thought.

[GuitarGuy]

+1

I think keeping it to a lp/prs is a good idea because that was the majority. If you have something else you want to build build it and enter it in GOTM.

[Drak]

This is why I suggested hiring yourselves 3 Mods, and let THEM make the rules, and hope they would make rules that would support a normal style of competative contest with a central theme that everyone shoots for.

When everyone chips in with their ideas, what's happening is that everyone is trying to sway the competition to their benefit.

If the Mods do the deciding and you don't like it or it doesn't apply to you, then you don't enter it, it's that simple.

It's the old rule of the most common denominator being the least effective answer.

Not all of you will get your way, and if the contest actually forms like a real contest would, some of you won't want to enter, and that's just the way it is with these things.

The more people want to contribute their ideas, the more disjointed and disconnected it becomes, until there's really nothing left worth salvaging in the end, which is exactly what I see happening.

You can't make the rules AND compete. You have the rule setters, and the competitiors, as with any normal competition.

[manquesa]

Okay well here's my thought.

Why not make it a divisional competetion.

Pick the top 3 styles of guitars to be built that everyone votes on.

Example,

- Telecaster

- Les Paul

- PRS

Then everyone competes in their own division, those building Telecasters will compete against each other, those building Les Paul's will compete against each other, etc.

This way there will still be a bit more variety and there will be less chance of getting stuck building something that you're not really interested in.

There can still be an overall winner as well.

I think there's enough people entered to acheive this if i'm not mistaken.

just my .02 cents

[Drak]

That idea is not a bad one actually, it follows the 'runoff competition' ideology, where the winners of two divisions then compete, until there is a final winner.

That I could understand, but I'm not sure there's really enough people who would follow thru with completed instruments to pursue this scenario, but it is better than what I've seen offered so far.

Lots more rules to make up tho, which means it's getting further and further away from a 'friendly build' and gaining more complexity, not always a good thing.

My guess is that this will probably dry up and blow away soon. There just isn't the backbone support here to assemble a proper competition, and most entrants are so far apart from each other in skill levels to make it a -very- hard sell logistically, even on a good day.

[AlGeeEater]

Drak, do you have any suggestions for rules or any ways to make this different from a GOTM? If you already posted them, then sorry i'll have to look around.

This sounds a lot more solid than the Carriburst though, maybe it was the leader, who shall remain nameless, who let it fall through. With some suggestions this could possibly get off the ground. Wasn't there an idea thread for this thread?

Chris

Edited December 20, 2006 by AlGeeEater

[Drak]

Drak, do you have any suggestions for rules or any ways to make this different from a GOTM? If you already posted them, then sorry i'll have to look around.

Are you blind man? Reread my post above about what a basic guitar competion is, I can't make it any plainer than that.

This sounds a lot more solid than the Carriburst though, maybe it was the leader, who shall remain nameless, who let it fall through.

Hmmm, who are you referring to? Carriburst was my idea AFAIK, I believe I started it, but I have nothing to gain by taking credit for it, I'm confused as to what point you are alluding to, so please spell it out for me.

If you're alluding to me in some way, please be clear about it so I know what you're trying to say.

With some suggestions this could possibly get off the ground. Wasn't there an idea thread for this thread?

My point is that it was an idea, and no one really bounced it around to see if it would hold air, no one really put it up for scrutiny to see if it could actually be done properly at all before deciding to just go ahead and get it started.

Most people know that before you start a business and ask for startup capital, you must show a lending institution your plans for success, why will your business succeed? And you better have a reason , a damn good one, and a backup plan if that doesn't work.

What I'm seeing here is actually worse than Carrie started out, it's the same group of people, more or less, asking the same questions, more or less, with even less in common than Carrie had (no central theme)

So don't ask me, I have no dog in this fight, I'm asking YOU how you're justifying the success of this proposition before a bunch of you go spending your hard earned money on wood and materials, because honestly, I don't see it, and I would like someone to clarify it for me.

So bring it on Algee, please explain the logistics of success of this competition to me, it shouldn't be that hard.

I can easily explain the logistics of the GOTM to you and why it works, but this idea so far, I'm not sure it even holds air, so help me out and explain it to me.

PS, I'm really neither for nor against it, I just want it explained to me how this will be a success.

Remember, Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just asking for clarification. If you can't give it to me, don't be mad at me.

Think of me as the lending institution that you have to prove your business plan to before I release my funds for your idea.

What is going to make it actually work? The answer is not wishful thinking.

[Simo]

Okay well here's my thought.

Why not make it a divisional competetion.

Pick the top 3 styles of guitars to be built that everyone votes on.

Example,

- Telecaster

- Les Paul

- PRS

Then everyone competes in their own division, those building Telecasters will compete against each other, those building Les Paul's will compete against each other, etc.

This way there will still be a bit more variety and there will be less chance of getting stuck building something that you're not really interested in.

There can still be an overall winner as well.

I think there's enough people entered to acheive this if i'm not mistaken.

just my .02 cents

That's a good idea

Now I'm just thinking out loud here but... what about 2 groups,

1) Gibson/PRS

2) Fender

Perhaps we could have a prize for each category and then a bigger prize for the best guitar out of both groups.... I dunno, just an idea

[westhemann]

two divisions make it twice as complex and harder to msaintain...

after reading drak's posts...i really have to say i agree with everything he says.

i think me,setch,and scott (since none of us are entering) should pick the guitar style to make this about.

OR

we should vote between the 4 most popular so far(prs,lp,tele,or explorer) and everyone just lives with the majority of entrants votes.

i will tell you right now i COMPLETELY agree with drak's "central theme" idea...and if the mods decide on the rules,i will go down on the side of prs/lp...

IF the contest is to be thrown open to all "shapes"...then another theme should be a commonality...say intricate inlays,or one solid color...or all neck thru....all set neck...all bolt on...all carved top...

i agree that if there is not a commonality amongst all submissions,then we end up with a lukewarm,watered down,"who cares really" kind of competition.and what is the point of that?