Beginner Floyd Rose Question

[Buckethead]

Hey may be a bit of a cheesy question but Ijust bought a new guitar with a floyd rose bridge, its a custom guitar that has been made alright but i seem to notice it has severe tuning problems, when i pull the whammy bar up, every string tunes up about a whole half step, and vice versa when i pull the bar down, even when i just do a full bend on a string the bridge will move and detune the guitar, im wondering what would be the origin of this problem? im new to floyd rose bridges and this is my first, ive heard from some that floyd rose bridges need a bit of playing around and they will naturally start to stay in tune but i doubt that, my plan is to buy a new floyd rose system but i dont want to waste the money if its not going to fix the problem so i would like other peoples opinions, oh and the bridge is a bit different from other floyd rose bridges ive encountered, this one doesnt need the ball end to be cut, it slides through the bottom of the bridge, the bit that is usually where the allen key is inserted to tighten the string into the bridge.

[SwedishLuthier]

Is there any way you can lock the ball end part? If not that might be your problem. You might have some parts missing!

Another thing. Are the strings new or are you trying this with the strings that came with the guitar? If so change strings, give them a day or to to set and try the guitar again.

I once had a Yamaha with a Floyd type bridge that didn't needed to have the balls beeing cut off. That bridge never staied in tune neither

[Batfink]

Well there's a number of thing's to take into account especially as it's not a true double locking system - some of the early Floyd Rose II's were like this but they quickly saw the error of their ways.

Firstly make sure the strings are stretched to f**k as it'll never stay in tune if there's still some give in them. (some people say that this is unneccessary but i suspect they play like pansies !) Then, take it to tune and see how it is....you wouldn't believe how many times i've done this for people and it's cured the problem at a stroke on anything ranging from a bottom line Ibanez right up to my singers PRS Custom 22 !

Next make sure that the lock nut is holding the strings tight - you DO NOT have to do the lock nuts up F.T. and you may find that the problem is that a previous owner HAS done them up too tight and stripped a thread hence it won't hold a particular string tight which will effect the tuning of ALL the strings.

Next check the trem posts that it actually pivots on, if they're notched and/or worn replace them.

Last, and by no means least as this could be the expensive cause of your problem, check the knife edges that the trem pivots on. If they're hardened inserts and blunt then CAREFULLY sharpen them with a small fine file / emery paper to see if you can restore the edges making sure that you keep the radius of the insert as perfect as possible. If it hasn't got inserts and just rides on a sharpened edge of the baseplate itself do yourself a favour and replace either the baseplate (if you can determine the manufacturer and actually get hold of a new one) or junk the whole trem as you'll NEVER get the bugger to tune up.

Jem.

[spazzyone]

do you know how to solder?and do you know what tining is? if so read on

do everything Batfink said and try this

tin the noose just above the ball on your strings it will keep them from slipping

you could also try fender bullets as they have the bullet end instead of the ball

[Buckethead]

to swedish luthier; nope nothing locks the strings, well at least nothing i know of, i just thread the string through and tune the bugger up, maybe there is something to lock the strings but i just havent found it yet. And the strings im using are new blue steels that i restrung as soon as i got home.

to batfink; mani should have posted this before i restrung the guitar because i tried to lock the nut up as hard as i could and the thread came off the top screw, but i fixed it by putting in a deeper screw and it locks up properly now, so i can rule that out as the problem, and i always stretch the strings for a whole day before i tune the guitar properly, it doesnt seem to make a difference to it, with the last suggestions i will look into, but io assume everything would be in order as this guitar was bought brand new.

to spazyone; i have no idea what tinning is so could you please fill me in? and i have thought about getting fender bullets ill probly get some in the next few days

[ibnaz5150]

Curious..........what make is the guitar and bridge???? There are many knock offs of the floyd bridge and there's nothing like the original.exception would be ibanez's edge. You only need to snug the lock nut clamps.should be 3 of them. I worry using a longer bolt may have dug into your nut shelf. You must of really reefed on that to get it to pop off or a inexpensive locking nut. Things the others have posted works as well.....ESPECIALLY stecthing the strings before it's clamped! There is another gadget out there called a tremsetter although I think it's another issue.

[Digideus]

cut a lump of wood and put it behind the retainer block in the cavity. It wont work as a trem any longer, but you wont have any tuning problems ever again

Seriously tho, Batfink is on the right track. My experience of Floyd Rose trems is that they require you to pretty much adjust every part of the trem setup to get it to work right. To me it sounds like the tension of the trem is wrong, which is governed by the springs in the trem cavity and the string tension of the particular tuning you are using. Is the trem sitting flush to the body in its cavity? if its raised up or depressed toward the back end of the trem, the problem is that it isnt set up correctly, probably due to string tension. Relax the strings, and adjust the spring claw screws half a turn, then retune and check it. Its a long process but once you get it set up youll notice the difference immediately.

bear in mind that heavier string gauges will require additional set up work, and you also want to check the neck in case you need a truss rod adjustment changing the tension like you are.

I bet that lump of wood solution is looking quite appealing right about now!

[Buckethead]

the make is called threestar and the bridge i have no idea but wher it says lisenced by floyd rose parts, it seems to say lisenced by floyd rdse prts lol but dont get me wrong its a great guitar, very nice to play i am going to keep it, but its just the bridge thats pissing me off atm. and with the lump of wood ill pass on that because i actually want to use the floyd rose system and do sum cool satriani moves with it with the bridge height, its sitting pretty much level with the guitar, so i dont think anything is wrong with that part, would it be wise to buy a whole new floyd rose system? they dont cost too much around where I live and i could pay for it easy, but i just dont want to empty my wallet on something if its gonna have the same problem so hmmmm i wonder what shall i do?

[ibnaz5150]

Original floyds aren't cheap....if buying new they range anywhere from 160.00 to 200.00. If your thinking of doing that keep in mind your route and measure to be sure you'll have a good fit......I found out the hard way that each bridge varies in dimensions. You can check floydrose.com for specs.There are so many copies of the floyd and my veiw on that is mass produced crap. It's a way for the company to shave expense...good for them not so good for you. I played my share of copies and truthfully never had a prob. Main differences for me using a original vs a copy is it sounds better,functions better and last much longer. Your cheapest route to go may be to take it into a local tech. Get it intonated .....strobe tuned,shimmed, truss adjustments & new set of strings.I'd also mention the tuning instability when hitting the bar. Once your all setup properly it's basically string changes from there on. String changes get easier and faster in time. Think this very issue bothered so many players that it discouraged them away from it. Yes it requires a bit more setup than a fender trem or hardtail but I can't think of a better bridge that stays in tune after so much bar abuse!

[Batfink]

'ThreeStar' guitars apparently come out of Korea and will probably carry a 'locally' made Floyd copy. Before you think of replacing the whole trem firstly check if it's modelled on the Original Floyd Rose or the Floyd II/Schaller. Very basically OFR's were used on non reccessed guitars and Floyd II/Schaller were used on reccessed guitars. You could use a Floyd II on either but you'll find OFR's string lock screws are too far back to use in a reccessed situation. As far as intonnation, truss rod adjustments etc: these will not cure your overall tuning problems if the thing won't stay in tune in the firstplace. If you think about it Floyds are not rocket science and really shouldn't present a vast amount of tuning to work properly and aren't the great pain that some think they are - for example, if i break a string i'm up and running in half the time it takes my other Les Paul equipped guitarists to re-string. I think at the end of the day your problem looks like it could be down to nothing more than a Floyd copy that's of cheap manufacture with dubious tollerances - as someone mentioned, hardware is THE easiest way to bring down the overall unit cost of a guitar's manufacture and here we see the concequences.

Jem.

[9956]

1)

severe tuning problems, when i pull the whammy bar up, every string tunes up about a whole half step, and vice versa when i pull the bar down,

2)

even when i just do a full bend on a string the bridge will move and detune the guitar, im wondering what would be the origin of this problem?

1) This is what the floyd rose is SUPPOSED to do. None of the excellent replies mentioned so far that half of your extreme problem is the fact that it works as it should

2) This will always be apparent in floating bridge systems without a tremol-no or similar device

I am correct on this guys right? Did it take that long?

OH

Then i read the rest of the posts. So hang on, you DONT want the strings to move up and down in pitch, but you do want to....

and with the lump of wood ill pass on that because i actually want to use the floyd rose system and do sum cool satriani moves with it

Well we all want the impossible. Windup? If not then it shows a depressing lack of knowledge by repliers.

Licensed floyds are ****, but you are not describing common symptoms of knife edge failure, and thus do not need to spend loads of money

[soapbarstrat]

It can help to lube the fulcrum point contacts, and I don't mean to squirt some thin oil that's going to run right down the post into the wood (seen the results of that, believe it or not). A thicker lube should be used, and just a little bit, right where those knife edges bear against the studs. You can buy some of the stuff with the cute names and fancy packages (nut sauce, etc), but I use CRC brake caliper grease (synthetic grease containing molybdenum disulfide, graphite and Teflon). Seems that the lubricants with moly are a little scarce now, because the military likes the stuff. Auto parts store only had one tube last time I bought some.

[another doug]

1) This is what the floyd rose is SUPPOSED to do. None of the excellent replies mentioned so far that half of your extreme problem is the fact that it works as it should

2) This will always be apparent in floating bridge systems without a tremol-no or similar device

I am correct on this guys right? Did it take that long?

Um, I think you're missing something here, 9956. The problem is that the strings stay out of tune after using the trem. Surely that's not what's supposed to happen. I agree with your assessment of number 2, though.

Buckethead, as far as the string bending issue is concerned, I would just make sure no open strings are ringing when you bend. Unless a floating bridge is locked down in some way, bending a string will pull on the bridge. lowering the pitch of all the other strings.

[Buckethead]

Yeah I think I will end up replacing the bridge, its definitely a cheap copy and it doesnt lock which the local guitar shop told me is perhaps why it doesnt stay in tune. Its not as expensive as you may think, here I can get an official one for $170 New Zealand, about $100US or slightly more. And sorry about the confusion but what i meant by:

1)

severe tuning problems, when i pull the whammy bar up, every string tunes up about a whole half step, and vice versa when i pull the bar down,

2)

even when i just do a full bend on a string the bridge will move and detune the guitar, im wondering what would be the origin of this problem?

1 - lol yeah i explained this badly what i meant is when i pull the bar up, every string goes up about half step, and then when i release it stays at that height if you get me and if i push the bar down every string goes down half a step or so and stays there when i let go and continue to play, and

2 - When i said bridge goes up i meant that the movement of the bridge going up detunes the guitar when it returns to the flat position e.g i bend the string, bridge goes up with it, comes back down, and then i keep playing and notice that the guitar has now detuned slightly....