themetalhankey Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) I need some help and advice on doing these frets... I don't have a gentlemen's saw, and they don't sell them at home depot.. the guy i talked to never even heard of a gent's saw. So then I used my metal hacksaw. The fret fits in the slot, but there is a little small space, so I can't hammer in the frets. I'll have to put some glue in there so it'll make up for the small space in the slot. Now what kind of glue is good for installing frets? I'm probably going to have to use Carpenters glue or gorrila glue or super glue. I heard epoxy is good but I don't know what that is, don't know where to get it, and my school doesn't own epoxy. Anyways.. here are some pics: http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3972/imga1152vs0.jpg http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6760/imga1153pi3.jpg http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2966/imga1154qo5.jpg http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6673/imga1155rw0.jpg Edited January 19, 2007 by Maiden69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Mailloux Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 That's some pretty large holes for frets. You would normally use epoxy to glue in frets in holes like this. You can find that at any hardware store. The thing though is that you'll need to clamp your frets in the holes while the glue dries. A radius caul should work for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 i am sorry but in my opinion you ruined those fret slots...i would never settle for that. i think you should order a proper fretsaw(www.stewmac.com) resand the board past those slots you made,and resaw...looks like you have plenty of board thickness left to do that.do the job properly or you will never be happy...at least i would not...and try to keep the saw steady next time as well if you can... don't take this wrong...i am just trying to help...and i don't believe that telling you to fill those slots with epoxy coated frets is in any way really helping you,although it might work...it just "aint the done thing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 maybe the T-rod slot is a little off center too ? Epoxy/press-fit is a decent option. Crimping the fret tangs is also good, but I can tell you're sticking to minimum tools. I guess the epoxy route is the cheapest way to go in that case. The 1993 Erlewine fretting video shows some good press-fit fret clamping cauls that work with any fret-board radius, and can be made for less than a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I feel I've ruined them too, but then again this is my first guitar, I've spent over 100 dollars on this guitar already and this is for school. Only 2 days left to finish the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I think you are going to have a heck of a time working with those frets(getting them level) if you glue them in like that. Holing out for a proper kerf would have been wise. A quick question about the first pick you have posted. It looks like there is a bit of tape over the truss slot. Is that just a small piece you placed in the nut slot or is that the tape you used to keep glue from getting into the truss rod slot when you glued down the fretboard? Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 in that case i would go ahead and epoxy them in...but how will you ever get the paint to cure in time?oil finish? you can always fix it properly later if you have problems...but you gotta get that grade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 in that case i would go ahead and epoxy them in...but how will you ever get the paint to cure in time?oil finish? you can always fix it properly later if you have problems...but you gotta get that grade I just need to complete the body and neck. lol and I can seal+paint by myself I'm almost complete with the body I'll post pics of it tomorrow, its in the school cupboard right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 I think you are going to have a heck of a time working with those frets(getting them level) if you glue them in like that. Holing out for a proper kerf would have been wise. A quick question about the first pick you have posted. It looks like there is a bit of tape over the truss slot. Is that just a small piece you placed in the nut slot or is that the tape you used to keep glue from getting into the truss rod slot when you glued down the fretboard? Peace,Rich yeah how would I get my saw to have an even cut, because when I use my hacksaw to cut the slot, it has a deeper depth at the ends of the cut than the middle of the cut. Also the masking tape was from the truss rod. I put 2 pieces of tape over the truss rod. Iwill leave the tape there for the nut to go over because glue will be applied to put the nut on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 ok those slots i measured are 1 mm each. How much should a "proper" fret slot be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG3390 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 1 pic per post pls. Link the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 What are you measuring the slots with ? I think a feeler-gauge is the only thing that gives the most true reading. 1 millimeter = 0.039" That would be a damn wide slot http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:mZDXx...t=clnk&cd=2 I made a crimper tool that takes Frank's to a new level, and I consider it an essential fretting tool, if you are going to take on fret-work that involves less than perfect fret-slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I think you are going to have a heck of a time working with those frets(getting them level) if you glue them in like that. Holing out for a proper kerf would have been wise. A quick question about the first pick you have posted. It looks like there is a bit of tape over the truss slot. Is that just a small piece you placed in the nut slot or is that the tape you used to keep glue from getting into the truss rod slot when you glued down the fretboard? Peace,Rich yeah how would I get my saw to have an even cut, because when I use my hacksaw to cut the slot, it has a deeper depth at the ends of the cut than the middle of the cut. Also the masking tape was from the truss rod. I put 2 pieces of tape over the truss rod. Iwill leave the tape there for the nut to go over because glue will be applied to put the nut on there. If you had trouble keeping the saws cut depth even. You could have made a miter box with guides to keep your cut depth correct as well as straight. That is what I did before I set up my current slotting rig. Since you have to move forward with the slots you have. Be sure to check your slot depth is deep enough that the tang does not bottom out. If they are not deep enough and you start gluing you are going to have a real problem on your hands. As mentioned earlier. Be sure you do get the frets clamped down as evenly as you can though. As I mentioned fret leveling is going to be difficult if they are not seated well. If I understand you correctly. You masked off the truss rod with the tape I see in the pic and glued the fretboard, and then left it where I see it in the picture to keep glue out of the slot below the string nut. Just for future reference(not much you can do in your time frame), but you remove the tape before you glue down the fretboard. If I mis-understood your responce you can dis-regard the advice. ok those slots i measured are 1 mm each. How much should a "proper" fret slot be? Proper fret slot is based on the width of the tang. Most fretwire has a tang width close to .023". There are a couple saws out there that will give you the right kerf for that slot size, but the saws offered by Stew Mac are about the same price. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 What are you measuring the slots with ? I think a feeler-gauge is the only thing that gives the most true reading. 1 millimeter = 0.039" That would be a damn wide slot http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:mZDXx...t=clnk&cd=2 I made a crimper tool that takes Frank's to a new level, and I consider it an essential fretting tool, if you are going to take on fret-work that involves less than perfect fret-slots. a 15 cm ruler lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I'll make a somewhat educated guess and say the ruler method for this is wide open for at least a .010" margin of error. Not so good, but on the plus side, you make me feel like I own every tool in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 You want .5-.6mm wide slots, and the only way to measure them well is with feeler guages. Decent measuring tools don't have to be expensive; IMO everyone should have rules in various sizes (say 6" to 60", in 2 to 4 steps), and at least one straight edge that's at least 18" long (if you work on guitars.) Add a square, some feeler guages, and you've come a long way. I don't actually have a caliper, but I do have a dial guage that I use for acoustic guitar measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 This picture worries me, measuring the distance between fret slots in whole mm seems like a bad idea, this is something that needs to be very accurate, at least to a 0.1mm. I have hand-slotted a lot of fretboards and i always use calipers to measure the fret-to-fret distance to at least 0.01 accuracy then i measure the nut-to-fret distance with a longer ruler just to check i aint making any errors, although i recently upgraded to the stew-mac mitre box and templates and it has saved me a couple of hours per fretboard. A 15cm ruler is not the tool for the job. I would consider filling the fret slots with something (veneer, filler, epoxy, etc. etc. )and making it a temporary fretless till you can do it properly - should be enough to get you the grade you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Honestly, I'd rather mark/measure out from a single point (the nut) to wherever you want to measure, and within .25mm (.5mm is always marked on a decent ruler) is easy enough to do by eye. Any fret-to-fret distance error is added with each additional fret, so it can get way funky by the time you get up to fret 20. But yeah, mitre box+templates totally worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 SO SORRY GUYS, but I hammered+ gorrilla glued the frets in today! I feel ashamed at myself for doing that. When I applied the glue, I put the glue over the fret slot, put the fret over that and hammered it in. At one of the slots, I put the fret in and it was not level so I used 2 mini clamps to keep it in... I just should have gone Fretless that would have been the best choice.. DAMNIT. Plus I got the gorilla glue all over my hands, and it leaves a black mark on me :S... Oh I also got the gorilla glue everywhere on the fretboard and some clamping mistakes which screwed up the fretboard with some pinches and many imperfections on the fretboard now, so I will probably scallop the entire fretboard to get rid of the imperfections and the gorilla glue which I think I overapplied because when I put the fret in, all the glue smudges out. Right now it's at school all clamped nicely, I got all 25 frets complete in 40 minutes. Bit rushed I'd say, I did the last 4 frets (23,23,24,25) in less than a minute because the bell rang... rofl. Yes I admit im dumb and should have just gone with a fretless fretboard. We'll see what it'll look like on monday, the last day of the semester before exams start. Hopefully I'll carve the neck and finish some routing errors I made on the body to fit in the neck pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 You haven't even leveled the frets yet, don't worry about fingerboard imperfections this early. You can easily clean up the fingerboard and pop out dented grain if that's the issue. Scalloping the fingerboard will lead to even more issues at this point, I guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 i must say though...gorilla glue is the messiest thing you could have possibly used...except perhaps for radioactive foaming kangaroo turds...(i know...where are you going to find a 'roo next to a nuclear power plant....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I've heard of horses but gorillas??!! How many gorillas are needed to make this glue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Paper Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Did you radius the board before you put the frets in? I may be wrong but it looks a little flat in the pics and was wondering if you did that after they were taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Don't tell me the board wasn't even waxed first, and you just let the glue stay on there and dry, especially the squeeze-out right along the frets. Sounds like a nightmare I might have. Maybe not as bad as the one, where I was clamping frets and the other end of the clamp was just going right through the back of the neck, but then again, I don't have any real experience with Gorilla glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetalhankey Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Don't tell me the board wasn't even waxed first, and you just let the glue stay on there and dry, especially the squeeze-out right along the frets. Sounds like a nightmare I might have. Maybe not as bad as the one, where I was clamping frets and the other end of the clamp was just going right through the back of the neck, but then again, I don't have any real experience with Gorilla glue. I didn't radius the fretboard, but I heard that you CAN keep the fretboard unradiused which has its advantages and disadvantages as well as a radiused one. Radiused: better bar chords , better feel I guess Unradius: better for setting up the bridge, lining it up, easier for bends Yup I just learned that I had to wax it before I glue it... meaning I didn't wax it before I glued them frets in. Now I have all this gorilla glue stuck on my fingers and I'm tryin to play with my guitars and its friggin hell cus its stuck like super glue, I tried peeling it off and it freakin burned and left cuts, similar to paper cuts. Poor me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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