drbassman Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I see some nice body blanks on eBay that have been cut within the last couple months and air dried. How can you tell if they're ready to be worked into a body? What's an ideal moisture content, if you can even figure it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I see some nice body blanks on eBay that have been cut within the last couple months and air dried. How can you tell if they're ready to be worked into a body? What's an ideal moisture content, if you can even figure it out? Air drying times can vary with what climate they are drying in. If the wood was green(30%+ moisture) and has been cut down to 8/4. It will be drying for at least 12 months before it has become somewhat dry 12-16%. This is a dangerous period to have wood cut to dimension because it will shrink, and is prone to cracking as it shifts through high imbalances in pressure(core to shell). This is when woods crack and split. The wood probably needs another 6-12 months beyond that period to dry to a fully stabalised piece. Fresh cut wood is risky, and of course with the risk the price(value) drops greatly. I would not waste time with green wood if you do not have an absolutely compelling reason to buy it(the piece is very special), and you have no need to use it for a couple years. To test moisture you can pick up a moisture meter(less expensive ones (under $50) can be purchased at rocklers,woodcraft etc...). You can also monitor weight, but this takes some time and experience. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I see some nice body blanks on eBay that have been cut within the last couple months and air dried. How can you tell if they're ready to be worked into a body? What's an ideal moisture content, if you can even figure it out? Air drying times can vary with what climate they are drying in. If the wood was green(30%+ moisture) and has been cut down to 8/4. It will be drying for at least 12 months before it has become somewhat dry 12-16%. This is a dangerous period to have wood cut to dimension because it will shrink, and is prone to cracking as it shifts through high imbalances in pressure(core to shell). This is when woods crack and split. The wood probably needs another 6-12 months beyond that period to dry to a fully stabalised piece. Fresh cut wood is risky, and of course with the risk the price(value) drops greatly. I would not waste time with green wood if you do not have an absolutely compelling reason to buy it(the piece is very special), and you have no need to use it for a couple years. To test moisture you can pick up a moisture meter(less expensive ones (under $50) can be purchased at rocklers,woodcraft etc...). You can also monitor weight, but this takes some time and experience. Peace,Rich Thanks Rich, I suspected as much. A couple months of air drying didn't sound like a lot to me, especially not knowing how fresh the lumber was before the blanks were cut. I was thinking maybe I might buy a couple, get a meter and monitor the wood's progress. I have a lot of projects in mind and having some wood ready in 6-12 months would be fine for some of them. I was also thinking, can you dry blanks yourself using an oven or the like? Just popped into my head. Probably a dumb idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I see some nice body blanks on eBay that have been cut within the last couple months and air dried. How can you tell if they're ready to be worked into a body? What's an ideal moisture content, if you can even figure it out? Air drying times can vary with what climate they are drying in. If the wood was green(30%+ moisture) and has been cut down to 8/4. It will be drying for at least 12 months before it has become somewhat dry 12-16%. This is a dangerous period to have wood cut to dimension because it will shrink, and is prone to cracking as it shifts through high imbalances in pressure(core to shell). This is when woods crack and split. The wood probably needs another 6-12 months beyond that period to dry to a fully stabalised piece. Fresh cut wood is risky, and of course with the risk the price(value) drops greatly. I would not waste time with green wood if you do not have an absolutely compelling reason to buy it(the piece is very special), and you have no need to use it for a couple years. To test moisture you can pick up a moisture meter(less expensive ones (under $50) can be purchased at rocklers,woodcraft etc...). You can also monitor weight, but this takes some time and experience. Peace,Rich Thanks Rich, I suspected as much. A couple months of air drying didn't sound like a lot to me, especially not knowing how fresh the lumber was before the blanks were cut. I was thinking maybe I might buy a couple, get a meter and monitor the wood's progress. I have a lot of projects in mind and having some wood ready in 6-12 months would be fine for some of them. I was also thinking, can you dry blanks yourself using an oven or the like? Just popped into my head. Probably a dumb idea. To make sure I was clear. 8/4 lumber from green to useable is more like 1.5 years, and it is very risky for the first 8-12 months(cracking, shrinkage,warping,surface checks) especially if the wood is cut close to dimension(body blanks). As far as speeding up the process. No an oven is not a good idea. Kiln drying is done in a humidity controlled environment(based on schedules for various types of wood). The schedules are based on how much speed vs damage and loss you generate from the process. The term "kiln" makes many people think of kiln furnaces or ovens. The kiln drying process never reaches very high temp. and is very much about air flow(that help evacuate the moisture). If you dry it too rapidly you can case harden the wood. This stops the wicking of moisture to the surface locking ot trapping moisture inside. Just for the sake of curiosity.... What kind of wood is this you are looking at? and how much is being asked for the wood? The wood may very well not be anykind of "bargain" at all. Especially since it has been described as guitar body blanks(generally commands higher values because a body blank should be extreamly clean, stable, dry as well as surfaced and machined pieces**which this wood is NOT if it is green). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) I hear ya Rich. I was wondering about cutting any lumber that wasn't appropriately dry in the first place. Here's a link to the kind of stuff I see all the time on eBay. These folks sell a lot of this stuff and I wonder how it actually works out for the buyers. I also sent him a note asking about the moisture content of the wood. It will be interesting to see his response. eBay body blanks I typically buy blanks from Carvin and Warmoth and they are reasonable (an average of $70 or so) and very good quality. I was just curious about these bargain guys! Edited January 20, 2007 by drbassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I hear ya Rich. I was wondering about cutting any lumber that wasn't appropriately dry in the first place. Here's a link to the kind of stuff I see all the time on eBay. These folks sell a lot of this stuff and I wonder how it actually works out for the buyers. I also sent him a note asking about the moisture content of the wood. It will be interesting to see his response. eBay body blanks I typically buy blanks from Carvin and Warmoth and they are reasonable (an average of $70 or so) and very good quality. I was just curious about these bargain guys! Greeeeennnn. You'd probably have that blank off to the side for 12+ months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I hear ya Rich. I was wondering about cutting any lumber that wasn't appropriately dry in the first place. Here's a link to the kind of stuff I see all the time on eBay. These folks sell a lot of this stuff and I wonder how it actually works out for the buyers. I also sent him a note asking about the moisture content of the wood. It will be interesting to see his response. eBay body blanks I typically buy blanks from Carvin and Warmoth and they are reasonable (an average of $70 or so) and very good quality. I was just curious about these bargain guys! My gut tells me that seller is just buying alder boards(probably a med. grade) and cutting them to length and selling. If you want to buy that grade of Alder here in the Northwest you will pay between $2-3 bd.ft.(retail) A body blank is about 4-4.5 bd. ft($12-15). Now if a person was selling select Alder the cost per. bd. ft. would go up and the waste per. board due to defects would go up(their retail cost may be 30% higher). Then there is machining after it is dry(again takes time and you pay for that- plane, joint, surface sand). A nice Alder body blank(well dried, surfaced, and jointed, free of signigicant defects*large knots and what have you) would run between $40-$50. If it was paint grade(some visual defects) but still dried and machined you may be more in the $30 range(you still pay for machining). There are a couple guys from this board that sell body blanks that could hook you up for a reasonable price. Maybe one of them will respond here. As far as what that seller is offering. Wait for their responce I am betting they will say it was cut to length a short time ago, but it was pretty much dried when they bought it(at a furnature dry kinda level). You will do the best if you find a local wood dealer(maybe even woodcraft or what have you), and buy your body wood from them. You will be able to hand select good clear pieces, and the retail price will be very reasonable. You still want to let it set for a spell(generally a few weeks is good, as many times the wood has been in the store for a while and it was kiln dried to begin with). Peace,Rich P.S. green Alder(as in freshly cut and maybe 30%+ moisture). Is worth about $1-1.80 per. bd. ft. ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 +1 on finding a local source.. the place by me is kiln dried for 2-3 a board ft and has TONS of alder. make your own body blanks or have a cabinet maker join/plane the piece for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 +1 on finding a local source.. the place by me is kiln dried for 2-3 a board ft and has TONS of alder. make your own body blanks or have a cabinet maker join/plane the piece for you. Great info and advice guys. I do know of a lumber yard on the other side of the county that has nice kiln dried wood available by the bd ft. They have a lot of varieties from what I hear and cater to woodworkers and furniture builders. I'll have to check them out. Thanks again, this has been a good lesson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Wherever possible, buy local. Go to the yard, sort through the stacks, etc. I buy stuff online, but it tends to be speciality stuff I cannot get locally; figured woods, back/side sets for acoustics, stuff that's too expensive locally to make resawing myself feasible, that sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 +1 on finding a local source.. the place by me is kiln dried for 2-3 a board ft and has TONS of alder. make your own body blanks or have a cabinet maker join/plane the piece for you. Great info and advice guys. I do know of a lumber yard on the other side of the county that has nice kiln dried wood available by the bd ft. They have a lot of varieties from what I hear and cater to woodworkers and furniture builders. I'll have to check them out. Thanks again, this has been a good lesson! where are you located? and Im the same way as Mattia, figured woods are harder to find local as most furniture makers dont require the figure I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Well, here's the answer from the eBay seller: "Hi, They are fresh cut and green and very high in M/C i don't have a moisture meter so not sure exact amount." I guess that would be a good thing to state in the ad! It sounds like the boards would be a risk for sure. Thanks again for the lesson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 desopolis...mind sharing where you are getting the alder?i do have a source but if they are ever out i wish to have a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Well, here's the answer from the eBay seller: "Hi, They are fresh cut and green and very high in M/C i don't have a moisture meter so not sure exact amount." I guess that would be a good thing to state in the ad! It sounds like the boards would be a risk for sure. Thanks again for the lesson! Holy Moly! I just can't believe how some sellers even imply wood is at a high grade ("instrument") when they are selling truely green med low grade cuts of wood. I guess that is an easy way to sucker people into paying five times what is worth. I guess it just points out we need to stay on our toes, and be more informed buyers. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 you can get good clean alder here http://www.rexlumber.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassman Posted January 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Well, here's the answer from the eBay seller: "Hi, They are fresh cut and green and very high in M/C i don't have a moisture meter so not sure exact amount." I guess that would be a good thing to state in the ad! It sounds like the boards would be a risk for sure. Thanks again for the lesson! Holy Moly! I just can't believe how some sellers even imply wood is at a high grade ("instrument") when they are selling truely green med low grade cuts of wood. I guess that is an easy way to sucker people into paying five times what is worth. I guess it just points out we need to stay on our toes, and be more informed buyers. Peace,Rich Yeah, I agree. You really have to be careful, especially on eBay. I had my doubts and you guys confirmed them. I can't imagine people are buying this stuff and having good results. Well, I'm off to the specialty lumber yard today! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 desopolis...mind sharing where you are getting the alder?i do have a source but if they are ever out i wish to have a backup. yeah NP Fine Lumber and plywood http://www.finelumber.com its by where Rundberg and Cameron Rd. meet. they have alot of nice hardwoods as well(Afr/Hond mahogany, Paduk, wenge, zebra, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 thanks...i never knew that was there..and it is much closer to my house than the one way down south i have been going to. i recently found a shop that does custom milling on large pieces for $85 per hour....they did a good job ripping and thickness sanding my bubinga... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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