RGGR Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 With other projects coming to the finishing and set-up stage, it's time to dream up the next project. Some how my car found it's way to my wood supplier and without much protest from me, misteriously some pieces of Zebrano found it's way in the booth of my car. This is the plan...... RG-8 string..... Why on earth I need 8 strings when I'm not even comfortable with 6, I don't know.....but with all the 7s coming to fruition and Ibanez bringing out it's own 8 string this year, I thought it would be a cool idea. Reading about 8 strings you inmediately run into the problems of scale length. Tons of threads with discussions about the "right" scale length for an 8 stringer. Some say 27", some say 28.5", some say 30". Others say fanned frets. And the more thinking about it, fanned frets seemed to make sense to me. Would also be nice challenge to have first go at cutting fretslots in fretboard, and as no fanned fretboards can be bought of the shelves.......I think it's a nice challenge. Something like 25.5" for the high strings and 30" for the low strings. (some say 30" with create to frets too angled to play confortably, so we will see). It's to cold outside to do any guitar work anyway.....so next few days I will use to AutoCad out different fanned fret designs, and see what makes most sense. Guitar that set this all off is a great looking RG-8 by Richard Fay: www.richardfay.co.uk First step will be glueing up the body blank. (pics will follow when glued up). Anyone with comments on use and unuse of fanned frets are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Cool idea! First thing to decide is single-scale (straight frets) or multiscale (fanned frets). If you go single scale, you can use the Hipshot 8-bridge as on that axe, but if you go multi you'll either need the individual bridge/saddle arrangements (about $200...) or make your own bridge. And yes, a 5" difference between bass and treble scales will make it very difficult to play the guitar at one end or the other; the further you go from the straight fret, the harder it will be. I think most fanned-fret guys recommend no more than 2-1/2" to 3" difference between the scales. You also need to decide which fret to make the straight one. A good rule of thumb is to put the straight fret on a part of the fretboard where you do a lot of solo work...which may (or may not) depend on which keys your singer is comfortable singing in, among other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 (edited) Glueing up the Zebrano and cutting out the RG body will be the easy part........the trick in this project is in the planning. Going the fanned frets route is like opening up a can of interesting wurms. It needs some more studying on my side. String tension, scale length, type of tuning.......all this stuff is very new to me. An easy way out is a hipshot or ETS type bridge, lmii 30", 29 fret, fretboard......Lundgren bridge pup. For now I'm first trying to understand this Fretfind program. Edited January 26, 2007 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I noticed that somebody recently had the straight fret at the neck end...that seems like a great idea on a guitar because it will allow regular chording, the downside is that the frets will become massively fanned at the body end. I don't have any experience with these guitars but something that I would consider is having the straight fret quite near the body end...that way the fret spacing would follow the natural path of the fingers. Something that I find hard to comprehend with the usual fan from the 12th fret is that the fretting hand will need to twist towards the body & stretch further, essentially making it more difficult to play higher notes. Does that make any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Try laying out the fretboards on some paper first - you should be able to see where problems will occur. I have just planned one that has 1" difference between the strings and has the 7th fret as the straight one. Its a bit steeper at the body end than nut but that seems right to me. Obviously it affects access to the high notes on the low strings but i think thats an acceptable comprimise for most styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 If the link doesn't work, try this: http://www.btinternet.com/~faymarine/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 SWEEEEEEET!!!! Another 8-string, by the way this is the first time Ive seen that guitar your baseing yours off of---VERY COOL and man go with ETS!! they do some wicked work, this is my ETS 8 string Bridge !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahilltrade Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 this is gonna be awsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiewarlock Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 That RG 8 string looks awesome!! but i personally HATE the look of fanned fretboards...but if you feel that's the way to go, go ahead, your work is always really clean and it´s a pleasure to see pictures of your guitars, so i´m eager to see what would you do this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 well..i must say that is the first 8 string i have ever seen that made me want to play it... it also makes me think about building an 8 string explorer...like you,i think i would not even be able to play it... but let me run something by you...if i WAS to build one myself,i would most definately use a 26.188" scale,use a set of 009-011-016-024-032-042-054-065,tune the 7th string to C,and go from there...,having the #8 string tuned for bar chords and the rest standard.i think that would give the most useable range... i think you could really write some intricate metal with that...IF you could get the neck comfortable...i think i would go with the tightest string spacing possible and i think i would only go with 22 frets...with that extra range on the high string that tuning would give you,who needs 24? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 MetalMatt, any word on which type of ETS bridge this is, and what you paid for it. Looking at their website I'm bit lost in which type is which and which are suitable for an 8 stringer guitar. but let me run something by you...if i WAS to build one myself,i would most definately use a 26.188" scale,use a set of 009-011-016-024-032-042-054-065,tune the 7th string to C,and go from there...,having the #8 string tuned for bar chords and the rest standard.i think that would give the most useable range... See, this is why this whole 8 string guitar stuff is so darn interesting.......there are so many opinions and ideas that it's all highly confusing. Not that this scares me away though. Stuff like this makes me have to and in process I might pick something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I tried to find that Richard Fay website & it doesn't seem to exist...could you double check address for me? isn't the best thing about making something, be it a guitar, car, model kit, whatever, all the reading up first?...working out all the options & having little daydreams about what it might look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I hate quoting myself, but I am always right of course. I'm a proper Oscar Wilde, me. If the link doesn't work, try this: http://www.btinternet.com/~faymarine/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 there are so many opinions and ideas that it's all highly confusing. yeah..well let me give you my reasoning on the scale length and gauges.... in order tyo have a workeable string tension that won't break a .009 string,a 26.188" scale is about right for the tuning i mention...you will still have a slinky string feel,but still be tight enough at that tuning to not go "bbbojooonnnnggg" every time you hit the top string. 26.188 is a common acoustic scale,so lmii can make your board preslotted and radiused for you...i ordered that exact scale from then for my f guitar...and it is not so different from a 25.5" scale that you will have trouble going between guitars...i had a 27.5" scale and i could never get used to it because all my main players are 25.5" but there is no set in stone scale or anything for an 8 string... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibnaz5150 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 RG-8 string..... Why on earth I need 8 strings when I'm not even comfortable with 6, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Why on earth I need 8 strings when I'm not even comfortable with 6 Reminds me of an article I read years ago by dimebag Darryl....."If ya can't play 6 why play 7". Think he was poking at the new wave of metal..7 strings pumpin power chords minus the shred. It's probably more the building and learning experience then the instrument itself. To go the 8 string route I have to start studying and comprehend all kinds of stuff I haven't been exposed to before. So that process itself will help me learning to play the guitar.....6-er, 7-er, 8-er........ It's a matter of going out of your comfort zone. See I could also build another strat copy........but why?.......I don't see much challenge in that. And it's that challenge of conquering a 8 stringer and all it's magic behind it (because it's a rediculous concept of course)....that makes it's such a fun experience. Oh, for Richard Fay.....check out: http://www.richardfayguitars.co.uk/ Here are some more pics: http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/faymarine...823&.src=ph Here are some quotes on guitar off Jemsite: Probably the biggest project I've done as I built everything, including winding my own pickups. I am really, really happy with this one. Specs: 3 piece Zebrano/ebony body with oiled finish, Rock maple neck (perfectly quartar-sawn so it's hard as nails), 14 degree scarf joint, with Zebrano veneer on bound headstock, Ebony fingerboard with no inlay, 28.5" scale, 24 frets, eight strings 9-68, tuned high E to low F#, Pickups wounds by me - two humbuckers with 3-way switch and volume, Hipshot eight string bridge, Angled jack input. It plays really nicely, action at the moment is very low which helps picked runs down onto the low strings! Pickups sounds great, which I was a bit worried about seeing as they're the first I've built - the bridge is suitably toppy while the neck is very smooth and hollow, and it has a very useful sound with both pickups on. Usually I find this position to be a bit non-descript, but in this it has the smoothness of the neck pickup with some of the bass rolled off. The guitar balances perfectly, despite the long scale and bigger neck, although I did move the bridge back into the body when I designed it in order to help the balance (so the 12th fret is in the same place relative to the body as a UV; the head is 1.5" further away from the body; and the bridge 1.5" further into the body - hope that made sense). The balance is probably also helped by the fact that this thing is really heavy!! I didn't know much about zebrano before I bought the body blank, so I have found out that it is very hard, and heavy. It's huge fun to play - having two extra strings actually makes more sense than one, I think. I say this because alot of our usual guitar scales resolve on the sixth string, and with an eight string I have a whole extra octave that I can extend these scales with, before I have to start to go down the neck. With only one extra string you can only go half way down a scale from the sixth string before you have to go down the neck. Hope that made some sense lol!!Winding the pickups was the biggest gamble with this project, having not done it before. I did some research online about number of windings and usual resistance, etc. Then I bought all the pickup components from Stewmac and just went for it (lots of educated guesswork involved). Looking back, I think rather than making my own bobbins I would have bought their six string ones, and cut and joined two to make 8 string ones - would have been much quicker and easier. The neck had 5000 turns per coil to make a DC resistance of about 11K (I think), and the bridge 5500 with DC of 13K. I made a winder out of technical lego (honestly) with a 25:1 reduction, so 200 turns of the handle turned the bobbin 5000 times. So they are scatterwound, by hand, and then wax potted. It was fun, but a bit nerve-wracking actually plugging it in for the first time. Sounds great though. With router I planed the body blanks this afternoon. I will try to have body cut out before the end of the week. After the rough shape is out, I will park the project for a while, to finish some of my other projects and do some more studying on 8 stringers. Also digging into the pick-up anatomy tp see if it makes sence rolling my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 don't alot of people just use the emg 707 or 81/7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibnaz5150 Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I hear ya Rggr.seems you have the building bug. I saw your axxion project...nice work. Your beltin em out. If you remember I was building the rosewood rg body. Pretty much done with it...gonna dump it. Not cuz I ruined it but because I want the cash to get more wood.... ! I also pumped out a RG walnut/curly maple laminate body inbetween...dump that as well.I ran into that wood on ebay and dropped some $$ on a few spalted sets and one flame. Now I'm up for the challenge of doing a drop top. Definitely have the bug which scares me. Been wanting to do this a long long time now. I had most of the tools all along as well as a good back ground in woodworking. Always feared fudging up a good chunk of wood.I'm still backing off on necks though I'm getting the itch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I think there is no way you can get an EMG 7 to work with an 8-string, unless you use a really narrow string spacing....so narrow that you'll trip all over yourself. For 8's I think most people are using pickups for 6-string basses, there are a lot of choices out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 http://guitarpartsdepot.com/Merchant2/merc...ng-Bass-Pickups i am not sure of the dimensions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 (edited) I hear ya Rggr. Seems you have the building bug. I saw your axxion project...nice work. Your beltin em out.Well.....eh!.......not really actually. Still HAVE TO FINISH my first actual guitar - the JS-7. But my JS-7 project is currently at the painters, so delays are not caused by me. Just waiting in anticipation for it to be back in my hands. But yeah, knocking out a new body or a neck is not that difficult any more. Comfortable with those stages. Now coming into fretting and electronics soldering stages. Will see how that goes. And I find this guitar building to be very relaxing. After busy job and other BS taking up my time,....it's a nice escape. Just making some wood dust......doing my thing. I once heard story of lady Violin builder........someone asked her if she had to be very patient to do stuff like that. Well, she answered.....in real life I am an extremely busy person (read: ADHD), and this building of Violins brings me peace of mind. And I can relate to that. I just enjoy building a guitar, and that's all that matters. Don't alot of people just use the emg 707 or 81/7? I see lot's of people putting 707's in their Ibanez 7 strings, for this guitar I think I go the Lundgren M8 route. Edited January 27, 2007 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 mmm...nice pickup..i think if i were to build an 8,i would still try to stay active...i think it would need the definition of the emg...but meshuggah does have a decent sound with that pickup But yeah, knocking out a new body or a neck is not that difficult any more. believe it or not,i find the body much more difficult than the neck...i think mostly because of all the routing and curved lines...i am soon to go back to building neck through instruments....i find them easier as well...i just hate all of the blending and neck pocket fitup involved with a set neck...way too much planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goat Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 believe it or not,i find the body much more difficult than the neck...i think mostly because of all the routing and curved lines...i am soon to go back to building neck through instruments....i find them easier as well...i just hate all of the blending and neck pocket fitup involved with a set neck...way too much planning. I agree,although I`ve only built one guitar and that was a neck-thru.It went fairly smooth.For some reason I`d rather carve the body by hand than route,although I was probably forced to do it due to my lame bandsaws.By the time I set up to route I could already be deep in wood chips with the rasps.As a matter of fact,I just finished that a couple of minutes ago on my bass body.I enjoy the rasps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 For some reason I`d rather carve the body by hand than route Hmmm.......I'm pretty comfortable with my €39 cheap Chinese hand router. I guess the trick with routing is some good router bits and lots and lots of templates. Building guitars is more about making templates then anything else. Although today I spend a couple of hours planing the body blanks down from 50mm to 46mm (rest I sand by hand), but gosh would it have been nice to have thickness sander there, cause boy, oh, boy......what is that cumbersome with the set-up I got going. (I will shoot pic tomorrow of my set-up for routing body to thickness.) It's simply sickning. The again it does the business. (Sortof) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 I paid 100.00 fomr My Bridge, I'll get you more Info And Most People use EMG 45DC pickups with the 8 string guitars !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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