Muzz Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 You can join on the pointy bits and the joint will be the strongest part of the guitar. You are definitely on a goer with the biscuit joints, you are probably going to use a good space filling glue because of the end grain issue. At that point you will have two halves, front and back both with a transverse join. Then for each front and back half get a couple of metal joining plates, route out sections for them to sit in flush across the pointy bit joint (in what will be the middle of the guitar) then screw them in. When you later join the front and back halves together your body will have a metal skeleton that will hold those pointy bits on through real hard knocks and in years to come your grandchildren will be playing that guitar as you made it! Remember, design whatever you like first, then solve the problems. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our E Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 cad/cam, routers, bandsaws !! whats going on with schools these days ? When I was at school all we had was an adze and a forest ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 I know what you mean, I still have my 'best' school woodwork efforts, the standard bird sculpture flamed with a blowtorch and a car model made from balsa wood with a Stanley knife! While CAD could be replaced by a bendy curve and a pencil, I don't know how a router could be replaced in electric guitar building although I have heard that some luthiers make lovely instruments without them, how do they do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) I know what you mean, I still have my 'best' school woodwork efforts, the standard bird sculpture flamed with a blowtorch and a car model made from balsa wood with a Stanley knife! While CAD could be replaced by a bendy curve and a pencil, I don't know how a router could be replaced in electric guitar building although I have heard that some luthiers make lovely instruments without them, how do they do it? If you're not using a router, you can use a drill and bits to get most of the way then use chisels to clean up. You can even just use chisels, it just takes a long time. You'd be surprised how nice a hole you can make with a sharp chisel . Curved things like control cavities you might need some carving gouges. Incidentally, one of my friends took a 1x4, cut it in two, sanded the ends a bit, and glued it together. He waited a few days, then broke it. It did not break on the glue line. Glue not working on end grain is a myth, so long as you prepare the surface and use decent glue. 90 degree butt joints are a little different, but it's primarily because of the mechanical strength of the shape itself, not the glue joint. A 90 degree butt join is weak because the NON end grain piece will split along the grain and let the end grain piece pull away a small part of it. Edited February 11, 2007 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Glue not working on end grain is a myth, so long as you prepare the surface and use decent glue. No it isn't. Unless you create a mechanically strong joint you will have a very weak connection, which relies purely on the mechanical strength of the glue you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our E Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 The joint will need to be really rigid as any slight movement will cause the paint to crack. Of course you could put a layer of carbon fibre over the front and back to give it a race car look and strengthen it up at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Incidentally, one of my friends took a 1x4, cut it in two, sanded the ends a bit, and glued it together. He waited a few days, then broke it. It did not break on the glue line. Glue not working on end grain is a myth, so long as you prepare the surface and use decent glue. 90 degree butt joints are a little different, but it's primarily because of the mechanical strength of the shape itself, not the glue joint. A 90 degree butt join is weak because the NON end grain piece will split along the grain and let the end grain piece pull away a small part of it. No, Endgrain glueing issues are quite real. The issue with endgrain itself has to do with how fast it sucks glue(same as with water- which is why we use end grain sealer), and this can give you a dry joint. I have played with getting good glue joints on end grain. I have had the best luck by slowing down a little. If you wipe your glue on both surfaces give it just a second, and then wipe the glue around a second time making sure nothing has become too thin. Then clamp as usual. Some of the softer woods I use really suck a lot of glue initially and some woods really don't do it much at all(really depends on the wood). I agree with most of what you are saying about the strength of joints. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 (edited) Glue not working on end grain is a myth, so long as you prepare the surface and use decent glue. No it isn't. Unless you create a mechanically strong joint you will have a very weak connection, which relies purely on the mechanical strength of the glue you use. Do you really think it's impossible to get a good end-grain glue joint? That has not been my experience. Joints involving end grain can be weak because of their shape, but I've still been able to get good joins that don't come apart. It's also possible to get bad joints with endgrain - it's also possible to get bad joints with the grain, it's just easier to get bad joins on endgrain. That's been my experience, and the experience some of my friends have had, carefully preparing the surfaces and using good glue. It's possible that I just haven't had bad luck yet, and I know I don't have as much experience on some of the people on this board. (Including you, which I freely admit ) Edited February 12, 2007 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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