bluesdaddy aka Rob Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hi Folks, I am new to the group, and it looks like it's full of great information. My daughter is about to start on her first guitar building project. She has shown a lot of ability working with wood and has a lot patience. I lack all of those skills, but enjoy the research. Do any of you know of a template for Doug Irwin's Tiger, or Wolf both built for Jerry Garcia? The closest body I have seem is Warmoth's WDG, but they don't sell templates. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Have you considered finding a full frontal picture of the guitar in question, blowing it up full size using the fret spacing as a guide, and printing it out? You could then make a template from that. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Also, check out guitarbuildingtemplates.com . Can't say if they have it, but it's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesdaddy aka Rob Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I tried guitarbuildingtemplates.com and they don't have the pattern. I have tried blowing up pictures with mixed results. It does not always blow up proportional, but it's a very good idea. I was thinking maybe someone might have knocked one off already. It's a beautiful body shape Warmoth gets close but we want to build our own body. Almbeic produces almost an exact copy, but @ $10K it pretty much out of our league. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Well, this is a big part of what building your own guitar is about. Sure, you can go out and buy a template (or try to buy a template), but once you've done that, you're already 75 percent through the build. Maybe even more. But you should be able to develop your own plan/template using photographs and Autocad. It's not always easy to find dead-on photos, so what I do in that case is draw a center line on the photo, then spline in only half of the guitar and mirror that. This works for symmetrical shapes, of course. Also to get the proportions I want, I take the measurement of the neck I'm going to use and scale up so that the width of the neck pocket matches the heel. From there, you cut your own template-- and spend the time tweaking the template until it's what you want. Since this is probably the most important step in a build--since like I said, most of the real work flows off of that--it's worth the time spending to get it right. I suppose it all depends on how exact a copy you want. Personally, it takes me months to build a guitar. So if I'm going to build a guitar, I'm going to build one that fits ME, not Jerry Garcia or anyone else. (insert coffin case joke here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Well, this is a big part of what building your own guitar is about. Sure, you can go out and buy a template (or try to buy a template), but once you've done that, you're already 75 percent through the build. Maybe even more. Eh? Planning and drawing, on paper, is half the fun for me, but it's mostly doodling, and these days I can whack out a blueprint/design in an evening's worth of drawing. A few more evenings pass refining the details, getting inlays right, that sort of thing, but after the drawing's done (which isn't hard), making templates is absurdly simple work. Yeah, you have to make sure they're all nice and smooth, but beyond that it's nowhere near 75% through the build. The build only starts once the templates are made, in my book, and all the templates do is let me cut out the basic body shape, basic headstock shape, and various cavities/routes. But that's where the harder stuff starts; detailing, carves, cutouts, binding, bevels, fitting tight neck pockets, etc. And lest we forget, jointing, prepping, laminating wood blanks, radiussing, slotting, tapering fingerboards (for those of us who start with lumber). That's a ton of work, and all of it requiring more attention and patience than making a template out of 6 mil MDF (and then making a master out of ply, because MDF compresses too easily). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Eh? Planning and drawing, on paper, I'm not talking about the plans, I'm talking about the actual MDF or whatever templates. But once you have your templates made the 'danger' areas (as I like to call them, that is the parts where, if you screw them up, you've screwed up the guitar) pretty much take care of themselves. The rest of it--the sanding, etc.--is all part of the fun. At any rate, it's not the part where I get most nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 I made a guitar based on "Tiger," which is probably the most famous of the Doug Irwin guitars (my version is in my avatar; it's actually made with padauk instead of cocobolo and I modified the body shape to fit through a 12 1/2 inch surface planer). I took a pic from this page (which has tons of info), and blew it up: Tiger website The pic at the top of the page is actually a ton of small pics if I remember correctly, so you may be better off with a screen capture. The same site has some info on Jerry's other guitars, including Wolf, but not as detailed as the tiger page. Also, the Warmoth WGD shape is very close, and Alembic have a model based on the same shape, so you aren't short of options in finding a pic to blow up. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Eh? Planning and drawing, on paper, I'm not talking about the plans, I'm talking about the actual MDF or whatever templates. But once you have your templates made the 'danger' areas (as I like to call them, that is the parts where, if you screw them up, you've screwed up the guitar) pretty much take care of themselves. The rest of it--the sanding, etc.--is all part of the fun. At any rate, it's not the part where I get most nervous. I disagree; making the MDF template is trivial once you have a good full size drawing on paper. Glue the paper to the MDF, sand/file/whatever (usually saw, rasp, and a bit of drum sanding) to the line, and you're done. The fun part is using edged tools. Sanding's just annoyingly necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 These days I really enjoy the parts where I turn off the machines and it's just me and my hands (and the rasp or sandpaper or whatever) working. Of course, I wouldn't want to shape the body that way , but when I'm actually using my hands, I feel like I'm really building something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesdaddy aka Rob Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am probably at the wrong place for the kind of help I am asking for. We are talking about a 17 year old girl that wants to build her first guitar. She has never drawn a plan, or made a template, or blown up a picture of a guitar until she gets it to correct scale. Sorry I asked. I simple tracing of a Warmoth WDG would have been adequate. I am sure all of your suggestions were intended to help, but all I can see is road blocks and arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am probably at the wrong place for the kind of help I am asking for. We are talking about a 17 year old girl that wants to build her first guitar. She has never drawn a plan, or made a template, or blown up a picture of a guitar until she gets it to correct scale. Sorry I asked. I simple tracing of a Warmoth WDG would have been adequate. I am sure all of your suggestions were intended to help, but all I can see is road blocks and arguments. No need to get testy with us. We're just responding to your question. If you don't like the answers, that's not our fault. Your daughter is only 17, that leaves her with plenty of time left to build a guitar. One of the best builders in this forum is only 17 (or 18 now?)--he started when he was even younger. Here's his latest build It may look easy from the outside--you think, "hey, I can knock one of these out in a few hours." But most of us spend months working on a build (of course, most of us aren't 17, so we can only work in our spare time). Patience is an extremely important part of the process --if she, and you, aren't patient enough to handle ANY of the steps, then the guitar's going to be that much harder to build, and less enjoyable to boot. Laziness is a big issue too --if your daughter or you are too lazy to learn any of the steps in the build process, then you're too lazy to build a guitar. In that case, just buy one. On the other hand, if she (and you) look at this as a learning experience, then you'll be able to embrace each step, overcome each obstacle and go for it. And she can learn how to do anything and everything. It's up to her. And you. Don't get angry at us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am probably at the wrong place for the kind of help I am asking for. We are talking about a 17 year old girl that wants to build her first guitar. She has never drawn a plan, or made a template, or blown up a picture of a guitar until she gets it to correct scale. Sorry I asked. I simple tracing of a Warmoth WDG would have been adequate. I am sure all of your suggestions were intended to help, but all I can see is road blocks and arguments. you arenot at the wrong place...these guys are debating each other,not you.that's how the info gets here,through debating different ideas. but a 17 year old girl is quite capable of doing an excellent job her first time.in my experience girls are more patient and pay more attention to detail naturally.that's something we guys have to fight every step of the way(our lack of patience) i doubt anyone has a tracing to give you...like was said,most of these guys either design their own or take a front view pic off the net and scale it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesdaddy aka Rob Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am probably at the wrong place for the kind of help I am asking for. We are talking about a 17 year old girl that wants to build her first guitar. She has never drawn a plan, or made a template, or blown up a picture of a guitar until she gets it to correct scale. Sorry I asked. I simple tracing of a Warmoth WDG would have been adequate. I am sure all of your suggestions were intended to help, but all I can see is road blocks and arguments. you arenot at the wrong place...these guys are debating each other,not you.that's how the info gets here,through debating different ideas. but a 17 year old girl is quite capable of doing an excellent job her first time.in my experience girls are more patient and pay more attention to detail naturally.that's something we guys have to fight every step of the way(our lack of patience) i doubt anyone has a tracing to give you...like was said,most of these guys either design their own or take a front view pic off the net and scale it up. If I come off as "testy", just read the entire thread put yourself in our shoes, first time visitors to this forum. Your debating comes off poorly to newcomers. She will get the guitar built as her shop teacher works for internationally known luthier on the side. The class has accomplished several fine guitar projects. She pulls a 4.28 GPA, and has been playing guitar professionally for over 2 years, so she probably will excel in guitar building as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Your debating comes off poorly to newcomers. She will get the guitar built as her shop teacher works for internationally known luthier on the side. The class has accomplished several fine guitar projects. She pulls a 4.28 GPA, and has been playing guitar professionally for over 2 years, so she probably will excel in guitar building as well. Well, now you're coming off as a...oh hell, what's the bother. Takes all kinds to run the world. And this forum. Though since it's your daughter's doing the work, maybe she's better off posting here. You can go back to polishing her trophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 As far as your trouble blowing up a pic, you just have to make sure you blow up both axes the same amount, and you are trying to get the distance from the bridge side of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret to be half the scale length (if you're looking for total accuracy, tiger is a 25.5" scale length, so the dimension should be 12.75"). When I did it I used paint, but you should be able to do it in any number of graphics or photo programs. It took me several tries and a bit of math to blow it up to the right size, but it worked in the end. I am probably at the wrong place for the kind of help I am asking for. We are talking about a 17 year old girl that wants to build her first guitar. She has never drawn a plan, or made a template, or blown up a picture of a guitar until she gets it to correct scale. Sorry I asked. I simple tracing of a Warmoth WDG would have been adequate. I am sure all of your suggestions were intended to help, but all I can see is road blocks and arguments. I usually try to avoid the contentious threads, but... Roadblocks and arguments? Seriously? Just because no one has the exact thing you need does not mean that the alternatives offered are not helpful. In fact, if no one has a template (and it looks like no one does so far) then blowing up a picture is your only option short of shelling out 400+ for a Warmoth to trace. If you don't want to use the advice given, then don't, but no one is trying to stop your daughter from making a guitar. As far as the template/sanding/etc. discussion, it's slightly off-topic (arguably), but was clearly not aimed at you and isn't obstructing your goal; you just had to read a couple more paragraphs. I really don't intend to be rude, but if you go back and read your posts (as you have asked us to do with ours) you will hopefully see how ungrateful you are coming across to people who are only trying to offer help, and understand why we would take offense (I'm not meaning to put words into either Mick or Wes' mouths, but that's the vibe I'm getting). Edit: edited to remove an arguably unconstructive comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 well...i was as p.c. as a person could possibly be.i think possibly you are just not used to internet forums.the average age of the people on this forum is between 13 to 25(i am one of the older guys,at 35,but not the oldest)...so maybe you are just not used to the way teenagers talk....i don't know.there was absolutely nothing wrong with the posting before you had your first problem...you just didn't get the answer you wanted. but in all honesty,your daughter may be better suited to conversing with these people.there are alot of father/son-father/daughter builds going on here all the time... but i seriously don't see the problem...except that i think you may be lacking patience. mickgaurd...there is no reason to fuel the fire...just stay out of it ...same goes for everyone else. by the way.i believe you can go to kinkos with a picture of the guitar(from the front),tell them how far it is from the nut(fretboard side) to 12th fret(12.75"),and they have the capability to blow it up propportionally...which is what these guys were telling you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 mickgaurd...there is no reason to fuel the fire...just stay out of it ...same goes for everyone else. by the way.i believe you can go to kinkos with a picture of the guitar(from the front),tell them how far it is from the nut(fretboard side) to 12th fret(12.75"),and they have the capability to blow it up propportionally...which is what these guys were telling you. Everyone else would be me . Point taken. Also, the kinkos idea sounds like a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 mickgaurd...there is no reason to fuel the fire...just stay out of it ...same goes for everyone else. Yes, sir. Will do, sir. Been a while since anyone's mistaken me for a teenager though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haymaker Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 I too am in the same boat. I could go with the Warmouth body, drop in the same pickups, even copy the wiring since I have the diagram. But I am also curious about the aspect of building from the ground up, the true hippie sandwich body, and in that, I don't have too much woodworking experience. So, I'll ask a question Rob maybe should have asked...since nobody confesses to having a template, do you have pictures that are usable for a projected design blowup? I can't find a dead-on shot, and I have all of the specs in the world about the guitar itself, but building it completely without a template or drawing, will never provide a good replica. There are some things I don't know. The thickness of the various enlays, for starters. Brass cutting is another. I would appreciate any help, advice, specs, info, sources. I've put plenty of kits together, but I'm looking at a ground up process, and it takes more research then snapping parts together from Warmoth to produce something as unique as a Doug Irwin piece. Again, any info is appreciated. Peace. Scott saint@mindspring.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted June 6, 2007 Report Share Posted June 6, 2007 My post on the first page of this thread contains a link to the best resource I have been able to find about Jerry's guitars. It has an almost straight-on pic at the top of the page, and tons of info. EDIT: Actually, this link may be better, since you can get to the details page, the Doug Irwin page, and a page with a really nice detailed picture (not straight on, though) of both the front and back (the bottom link). (On a side note to anyone interested, I swapped a couple emails with the original poster, and he's not as bad as he came off in this thread) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinnc Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I plan to build a WGD Tiger and a Wolf replica. I have a friend who is a CAD tech and he is going to help me try to develop a wolf template. I have found some wood dealers near me which is very cool and I also have friend who is a cabinet maker witha wood shop, so this is actually looking do-able. I think for the neck I am going to contact www.soulmateguitars.com and see if they can help. I know, it isn't the same but I work fulltime and go to school so time is something I don't have a lot of. I hope to get this kicked off hopefully around the summer. This forum has been more than helpful, just reading posts etc. Before I launch into the Wolf/tiger projects, I also plan on building a kit strat from WD music. I think it will be helpful in learning about electronics and how it all fits together etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulinnc Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Doug thanks for mentioning Dozin, I go to that site all the time and I am on the gearheads yahoo group. I never even thought of the picture of the tiger to use. It is a straight on shot, so that should make blowing it up to scale pretty simple. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another doug Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Just passing on the info that I found when I was in your shoes. Good luck with your build, and post lots of pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msherman Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Just passing on the info that I found when I was in your shoes. Good luck with your build, and post lots of pics! If you are interested, I can send you a tracing of the body? I`ve built a few of these guitars,LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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