Introducing The New Zachary Ikea Model.

[rhoads56]

Wrong. I DID look at the closeups, and even as a non-expert I can see some serious flaws. I mean AMATEUR flaws. Sorry, Mick, but I absolutely do NOT have to put him in that same category. If you want to buy that he's the real deal, that's fine. You're allowed to. But I think you've missed some very telling mistakes. Mick, there's a difference between "wrong arguments" and "arguments I don't agree with."

greg, please show us some examples.

[Primal]

Wrong. I DID look at the closeups, and even as a non-expert I can see some serious flaws. I mean AMATEUR flaws. Sorry, Mick, but I absolutely do NOT have to put him in that same category. If you want to buy that he's the real deal, that's fine. You're allowed to. But I think you've missed some very telling mistakes. Mick, there's a difference between "wrong arguments" and "arguments I don't agree with."

greg, please show us some examples.

Seriously. The only thing I noticed was where he dyed his inset logo on his headstock, the dye bleed into the surrounding grain. Other than that, I couldn't see any obvious flaws.

[thegarehanman]

I thought I had posted on this the other day, but I guess not.

Really, I've never been bugged by his guitars. They're ok, not the work of a visionary, but passable none the less. There are people that love them(although how many people that is stands to be seen), so they've got to at least play well and sound good, but the sound part is fairly subjective anyhow.

My only quibbles are his marketing methods and his tuners. That is to say, I don't particularly respect that a lot of what's said on his site is not carried out through his guitars on all occasions(ex: he says that removing wood from a body kills tone, yet he drills holes in a guitar for aesthetics). Also, the look of the tuners doesn't bother me. However, typical tuners are designed such that the string tension keeps the tuner's gear pressed firmly against the worm gear so that it's less likely for the string post to turn. Reversed, this effect is lost and the string post can more easily turn, possibly leading to tuning instability. Although that's something that might not show up until a few years of use, if ever.

So what I guess I'm getting at is that I'm pretty much indifferent at this point and I also have little better to do on a Sunday evening than post here.

On a different note, I sure do wish he'd either put the picture of the cat and mouse back up on the front page or remove my quote, because at the moment it doesn't make much sense.

peace,

russ

Edited February 26, 2007 by thegarehanman

[suicidecustom]

man, i just realized i live less than an hour from this goof. i should pay a visit next time im in windsor and see what his work is like.

[GregP]

Wrong. I DID look at the closeups, and even as a non-expert I can see some serious flaws. I mean AMATEUR flaws. Sorry, Mick, but I absolutely do NOT have to put him in that same category. If you want to buy that he's the real deal, that's fine. You're allowed to. But I think you've missed some very telling mistakes. Mick, there's a difference between "wrong arguments" and "arguments I don't agree with."

greg, please show us some examples.

Seriously. The only thing I noticed was where he dyed his inset logo on his headstock, the dye bleed into the surrounding grain. Other than that, I couldn't see any obvious flaws.

Oh for crying out loud. I don't sit there and browse his site all day, I just look at the particular links you guys have pointed to plus a few others that I stumbled across while reading other articles. I'm not going to retrace my steps to find everything, you'll just have to look for the specifics yourself. Examples that I SAW, but which I don't have a handy link for:

- a big frigging HUGE friggin gouge out of the fretboard from a file. I know that's what it was, because I did it myself when building my lap steel

- a Wilkinson bridge with a mother huge gap on one side as well as an upward angle. Maybe I just don't know Wilkinson bridges, but the ones I've seen are parallel to the guitar's top, even when there's a gap to accomodate upward bends.

- The strings on the samurai headstock sometimes (but not always) literally touching (rubbing against) the wraps of the strings on the other posts

- What SEEMED to be half-finished work on rubbing his oil finish. In this case, I'll grant that here at PG, photos don't always give a finish justice.

- botched fret ends

- Again, what SEEMED to be tight or too-deep nut slots. Without having the guitar in hand, it's hard to say for sure. But the wisdom I've always held to is that you don't want the nut slot to be so deep that it's as deep as the string's entire diameter (ie. the whole string is completely "enclosed" in the nut). There are plenty of shots showing his deep nut slots

- His setups! The SG page someone linked to as an example: strings wound 6.. 10 times around a post??? The neck pickup is WAY too high to not have the magnetic field affect the string when it's pressed down. Again I ask: how can you trust a luthier who wraps 6 times around a string post?

- Gluing on neck joints is sometimes messy and not properly cleaned up. And then dye is applied over it which brings attention to it because it looks different than the surrounding wood.

- Some guitars (again, not all) have their outside strings too far in from the edge of the fretboard. You can definitely argue that this is personal taste, but then-- why isn't it consistently in that far?

- The holes for his "Z1" bolt-on necks... why not at LEAST round the edges over? It's attention to detail.

And then there are just general observations:

- The samurai headstock, as I said, looks cool. I LIKE it in concept, just not in execution. There are many reasons that I'm sure you can all see, but since I'm going to be "called on it" apparently, let me ennumerate AGAIN:

1. The strings are NOT pulled straight as he says

2. There is NOT the benefit of less friction as he claims, since he's still creating an extreme downward angle over the nut

3. Why trees at all? Why not use one of those string retainer "bars" that are often on floyd-equipped guitars? You can get them with "Mission: Impossible Top Secret Slippery" (copyright Zachary Guitars) substance, too. Or at least, Graphtec.

- Why no other finish than hand-rubbed oil? Fine, he believes in it. So do I. But someone that I put in Myka's or Perry's calibre should at least have the ABILITY to do a more typical "plastic" finish. My money is on that he doesn't know how.

- That said, why not some shellac via French Polish? Only hand-rubbing required. And he could charge people extra for putting a secret ingredient into his "formula" that he's amazed that in the centuries of French Polishing nobody has discovered?

- The hypocricy! Far too many times do you find guitars that are examples of what he's supposedly "against." And what about the Line 6 amp, while he calls people who use digital "idiots"? Two small examples.

- Again with the reviews. I'm personally convinced that they were written by the same person, and I have given general reasons why. I am not going to go through them sentence by sentence. At some point in time, somebody else is going to have to do some frickin work to prove THEIR point.

- I haven't heard any excuse at all for why every one of his webpage headers have OTHER brand-names on them. OK, so it's not a "build quality" issue, but it IS a professionalism issue. And although only seemingly one small point in this point, that's HUGE for me. I don't go to Scott French's site and find hidden, "Ibanez PRS Strat Hendrix G3" in his page headers. For that reason alone, I do NOT place this guy in the same category as the people I respect.

Holy flippin' heck. You guys are killing me. In my head I thought, "does he know how to do any other wiring?" so I went against my better judgement to check some of the pages myself.... Well, he does, as it turns out, but I found some stuff.

http://zacharyguitars.com/181097pics.htm :

- saw problems with string pull (though, he used a retainer bar! Installed crookedly, mind you. Not on the samurai... why?)

- a plastic, too-deep, tight-looking nut

- electric tape on a pickup (??)

- some random piece of metal near a vol knob, looked like a screw or nail that had to be removed so he just snipped it off and filed down.

- a rat's nest of wiring,

- a ding in the upper bout,

* the letters "JB" hand-carved into the bridge pickup with an Xacto and "Jazz" into the neck one!!

- The little cavity "holes" are kinda neat at first, but serve no real purpose and have no covers.

Fine, it was probably an early one, but he charged $1200 for it. I could have sworn I've seen people burned at the stake here for worse.

http://zacharyguitars.com/261003pics.htm :

Just at random... I'm not intentionally singling out the "bad ones," just getting a cross-section:

- Not a "flaw" but wait.. what do I see? Figured maple which he supposedly thinks is a crime against man

- Check the close-ups of the headstock again for the usual string pull problems. This time, with new and unimproved effed up string trees

- The nut. Maybe I'm just crazy here. If a pro can tell me that it looks like a well-made nut, I'll rescind that point

- The bridge. wth is going on there? Am I insane or is it incorrectly installed? Or more accurately-- it might be correctly installed to match the neck height, but that would've been a workaround. I wanted to make sure I'm not just going crazy, so I did some image searches and NEVER found a Wilkinson bridge installed that high and with such obvious gaps.

- The heel. A "smooth" heel doesn't make it an ergonomic one. Have a look at that lump and tell me that even if it's the right size, it doesn't look weird and "off".

- The ninth pic down (in total, including the main one) shows the bridge again, and also the bridge pickup... what's that gunk under it? Should we even be able to see under it at all??

- Holy schnikeys, there are too many pics to count down to them, but just look... you'll see some sloppy fretwork including one heck of a gap under one (again, not necessarily an issue, but why not under the others, and why not at least an attempt to fill it in?), what seemed to be frets not mounted straight-in, and some inconsistent and sloppy-looking dressing of the fret ends.

- what is WITH the extra wood between the last fret and the pickup? It's not in all of his guitars, but it's in several of them. I can't honestly call that one a "flaw", but on a guitar posted here you can bet that the regulars (including pros) would say, "I would lose that extra bit of wood. If you're not going to put a fret in there, it looks kind of like you were too lazy to cut it to the correct length."

- no 24th fret marker? Again, it's just one of those things that a pro probably wouldn't overlook. Most guitar makers want it there just to emphasize that it's a 24-fret model. But in any event, the absence of a marker where every other marked fret has them is off.

I'm not saying every guitar he's ever built is a piece of crap. What I AM saying is that a ) he's not a professional in my (and other people's) definition of the word. b ) there are enough flaws in enough of what I've seen that I do NOT put him into the same ranks as Myka, Perry, or Scott French. Sorry, but there's no way. c ) he is a hypocrite and I suspect very strongly that he has also told mistruths (example: the "stories" of his alleged customers) d ) he uses pseudo science slightly less often than Ed Roman, but he uses it.

I agree and half-agree on other points:

- he does have some neat designs. So do junior hobbyist members here.

- People need to make informed purchases all by themselves to a certain degree. How can I argue with that? But there ARE governing agencies over this sort of thing for a reason. It's not business ethics to fleece someone just because you can, so I don't buy the argument that it's their own fault and only their own fault.

- Most of his "design principles" I actually agree with

- Not a point made yet, but: I REALLY like that kind of humbucker cover, ever since I saw Yamaha using them. So much nicer-looking to me than traditional 'buckers.

In any event, there you have it. I don't even CARE that dang much, but you guys really have my card for being someone who doesn't avoid debate/challenge when called upon.

If you're going to do it again, though, I suggest that you at least address some of the points *I* have made, such as the webpage header thing. I understand that I have the burden of proof for much of what I've said, but others have conspicuously avoided or simply not bothered answering questions and problems I've posed.

Greg

[tim_ado]

far out the time people waste on this topic

you'd think you could spend it better fixing your own problems

[Mickguard]

Greg, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I admit it. In this case, I'm wrong.

So I apologize.

In fact, I've been reading your posts for a couple of years now, I should have known better than to mistrust your judgment. You've always been fair.

And obviously, you have an excellent eye for detail.

Hell, I'm even (almost) willing to accept that he wrote all those reviews too.

And now, I really have to agree. For an amateur, those mistakes would be acceptable, at least on the first few builds. But the fact that the 261003 is apparently his SIXTIETH build --and he's still making tons of mistakes, says a lot. I even spotted at least one you didn't mention--check out the gouges in the wood on the back of the headstock next to the tuners.

So yeah, I publicly apologize to you.

Oh yeah, I ought to apologize to Perry, Myka and Scott too, while I'm at it. Although I appreciate Perry's professionalism toward this one.

I still like some of those design details, but that's something else. The guy is indeed a hack.

As for his hypocrisy, well, we all have the right to some of that. It's part of human nature.

Russ--I pointed out in the last Zachary go-round that a lot of his customers seem to buy multiple guitars from him. So his customer pool is more limited than he makes it seem.

And tim-ado. Well I've never understood all those guys who spend hours discussing the scores, averages, and strategy for a bunch of multi-millionaire sports heros either. And yet they do. Always make me scratch my head.

[tim_ado]

Well I've never understood all those guys who spend hours discussing the scores, averages, and strategy for a bunch of multi-millionaire sports heros either. And yet they do. Always make me scratch my head.

think u missed the point

like people are trying to right this guys wrongs when there builds could be better

and befour you say yeah but his claiming to be a "pro"

his obvisouly doing things that work for him

and jsut to avoid being a hypocrite im going to shut up now

[jnewman]

Greg, there is one thing I think you've got wrong. I think that random chunk of metal is supposed to be an indicator for the volume knob.

That said, I agree that I would certainly never buy one of his guitars, am impressed by the incredible lack of professionalism of his website and apparent attitudes, and am also amazed by the sheer BS level in some of the things he says (I especially liked his longwinded statements about how his super magical nut material eliminates tuning stability problems, and then he puts in string tees with the sharpest angle I've ever seen).

Edited February 26, 2007 by jnewman

[Mickguard]

think u missed the point

like people are trying to right this guys wrongs when there builds could be better

Naw, I get what you're saying. But this discussion actually is on-topic --there's a lot to learn about building here, if only in understanding the attention to detail that can turn an amateur job into a truly superb self-build.

And for someone like myself, who easily has his head turned by any cool-looking 'innovation', it helps to provide a reality check. Sometimes that's helpful too, though not always welcome

[tim_ado]

yeah but like people are always on about contructive critisim (cant spell )

but like if you want him to know your consern why bag him out on a forum

like send him and email

judge him then on how professionaly he can take it

like i dont like his attiude but his "idiots page"

is people just being idiots

like as if his going to listen to you if your say his ways are straight out crap

[westhemann]

well,i did not notice all of the flaws you pointed out,greg...but i think that is because i noticed the headstock problems and read the bias against hard finishes(which i agree and have often saidis usually because the person can't do them properly...they are much more difficult for sure)and filed him away as someone i don't care for and never went back.

i can't see going through his entire gallery to find these flaws though...maybe because i am lazier than i used to be...but these days i spend most of my time tryiong to improve my own building.

but i agree...if a self labeled "pro" on this board posted a build like that,he would be lambasted for sure...i must admit i am a bit confused about perry's stand on this one...maybe there is some sarcasm there i am not catching?but it's true i don't care that much about it.

[Mickguard]

but i agree...if a self labeled "pro" on this board posted a build like that,he would be lambasted for sure...i must admit i am a bit confused about perry's stand on this one...maybe there is some sarcasm there i am not catching?but it's true i don't care that much about it.

More like since he's a professional, he has to remain above this sort of thing. He can't take shots at another builder whose customers, at least, seem satisfied.

Besides, there's always the risk that he'll get quoted by the guy.

[Ben]

but i agree...if a self labeled "pro" on this board posted a build like that,he would be lambasted for sure...i must admit i am a bit confused about perry's stand on this one...maybe there is some sarcasm there i am not catching?but it's true i don't care that much about it.

More like since he's a professional, he has to remain above this sort of thing. He can't take shots at another builder whose customers, at least, seem satisfied.

Besides, there's always the risk that he'll get quoted by the guy.

Perry already was quoted on there wasnt he?

I cant be bothered trawling through all the crap on his site to check but I seem to remember he was...

[Duane]

Well this thread certainly increased traffic to his website.....brilliant marketing.

[marksound]

For the record, that red one is the best looking one I've seen so far ... but it's still a Dano copy.

[rhoads56]

No, i just dont see things like you guys do. Sure, i see a ding and some electrical tape on a guitar, but im willing to accept thats because it was probably used as a sample guitar. That might just explain the jazz/JB engravings too. I see an angled retainer bar, and i also see a photo that wasnt taken straight on, because the bar is damn straight in another shot. I also accept that occasionally, a retainer bar is set to different heights on the bass vs treble sides, which can make it appear to be angled.

Ive even posted up guitars on this very forum, and had people comment about the "large bubble on the finish" which was actually a reflection of a bolt in the ceiling. I know how hard it is to photograph a guitar, and sometimes the camera shows more than whats really there. Damn, the latest article i wrote for Aust Guitar magazine has photos of some inlays with GAPING holes around then, and i can assure you those are not there in 'real life'. But, no doubt some nerd somewhere, is having a go right now about my apparent lack of quality control. Ive never yet taken a photo that i feel captures one of my guitars... ever...

I have one sample guitar on my wall in the shop right now with a large scratch on the back, and two chips in the binding. That happens to guitars played by a few different people each week. But you know, there will ALWAYS be someone who thinks i (or zachary, or anyone) cant build a guitar properly because it has a dent... I can absolutely assure you, that dent in Zachary's guitar wasnt there prior to the finishing, and the wear in the electrical tape says to me its been played a LOT. Will i bother fixing the dents and scratches? NO, i prefer to let someone who deserves a fair go, to have the opportunity to own a guitar they might not have been able to afford otherwise.

I also know what its like to deal with clients (ok, lets say PROSPECTIVE CLIENTS). You wouldnt believe what they request, or think is right. I have enough people bag on me, to know that maybe, just maybe, someone requested he do a guitar the way he did. But we will never know, unless Zachary comes in here to tell us. I can assure you he is watching, and like all SMART luthiers who run a business, he stays off the forums (generally, that arent run by themselves). No matter how many satisfied clients you have, there will ALWAYS be some group that have never played, heard, or touched one of your guitars, but will still take the time to tell everyone how crap it is. Only tonight, a good friend was telling me about his guitarist in his band, and how he refuses to come to me for a simple guitar repair, because he has a problem with the car i choose to drive. This is the metallity of some 'experts' out there (not point the finger, simply a general comment).

MOST of the comments people have mentioned in this thread come across to me as sour grapes, and bandwagon bashing. The funny thing is, if i mention a flaw in a guitar posted on this site, im labelled a bully, insensitive, unproductive, yet its fine for the rest to gang on top of someone out there giving it his best, and apparently making a damn good go of it.

And Mick, i AM quoted on the Zachary website... it was a comment about doing, rather than gossiping.

Either way, i would rather see Zachary prosper than not. After all, he is closer to his dream than anyone here (who dream about guitar making for a living), regardless of YOUR opinions on his ideas. If only this industry would have more support for each other, we might be able to bring back the boutique/bespoke market, and do away with the mass produced rubbish out there. But you know, most guitarists are content being like everyone else, whilst claiming to be unique

[Demiurge]

For what it's worth, and it's regarding a small detail, the electrical tape on the pickup of that Dano-copy is probably to prevent the high E from getting caught on the edge of the pickup bobbin. Steve Vai's main Jem, "Evo" is taped like that, but then again, his guitar has a trem suited for wild bends, where this one appears to be a hardtail. Maybe since there doesn't seem to be that much space between the outer strings and the edge of the fretboard, that probably helps.

As far as etching "Jazz" and "JB" sloppily onto the pickup- why oh why?

[GregP]

Mick, I appreciate your words, but man, you OVER-apologized! Nobody's opinion is above being questioned. I think you might be right about that piece of metal, though. Weird design choice.

Perry, maybe I'm just reading incorrectly, but I took all of that that to be "You're right about some of that, but let's not forget that nobody's perfect." I don't think I needed to be asked to "provide examples" for that conclusion to be drawn. Me: "There are glaring flaws," You: "Provide examples [implied message: I don't see any]," Me: "How bout these?" You: "OK, but nobody's perfect." Well, that was kind of my original premise, no?

Sure, i see a ding and some electrical tape on a guitar, but im willing to accept thats because it was probably used as a sample guitar. That might just explain the jazz/JB engravings too.

Except that he sold it for $1200.

I know how hard it is to photograph a guitar...Ive never yet taken a photo that i feel captures one of my guitars... ever...

I agree for the most part. Especially for things like finish, which I mentioned and gave him credit for when discussing his inconsistent-seeming or incomplete-seeming oil finishes. The poor ability of photographs to convey real-life impact can't be the scapegoat for everything, though. If only! It can go the other way, too-- good photography can flatter unrealistically.

I have enough people bag on me, to know that maybe, just maybe, someone requested he do a guitar the way he did. But we will never know, unless Zachary comes in here to tell us.

Except that he himself states very clearly and MANY times that he is NOT a custom builder and therefore does not take requests. He says it less politely, too.

No matter how many satisfied clients you have, there will ALWAYS be some group that have never played, heard, or touched one of your guitars, but will still take the time to tell everyone how crap it is.

Or how good it is.

---

To anyone who thinks I have an agenda or am wasting my time: I would've been happy saying a lot less, but well, it is what it is. There's some value in the exercise, and I personally hardly ever feel like my time is wasted here. I would've been happier spending 30mins on the topic instead of an hour fifteen, but that's at least partially my own fault. In the bigger picture, this forum rarely goes "off-topic," because even in debates like this we're talking about guitars. I know more about guitars now than I did when the thread started. Even just analyzing how Zachary's "samurai" headstock could be improved is worth something.

Greg

[rhoads56]

Perry, maybe I'm just reading incorrectly, but I took all of that that to be "You're right about some of that, but let's not forget that nobody's perfect." I don't think I needed to be asked to "provide examples" for that conclusion to be drawn. Me: "There are glaring flaws," You: "Provide examples [implied message: I don't see any]," Me: "How bout these?" You: "OK, but nobody's perfect." Well, that was kind of my original premise, no?

Nah, i just didnt want to spend more time going through every point. To be honest im bored with this thread, but like a car accident, im drawn to look...

Sure, i see a ding and some electrical tape on a guitar, but im willing to accept thats because it was probably used as a sample guitar. That might just explain the jazz/JB engravings too.

Except that he sold it for $1200.

Sorry, i missed your point.

[GregP]

Nah, i just didnt want to spend more time going through every point. To be honest im bored with this thread, but like a car accident, im drawn to look...

I can relate, but if that's the case, YOU shouldn't have asked me to provide examples that you had no intention of reading or responding to.

[rhoads56]

Nah, i just didnt want to spend more time going through every point. To be honest im bored with this thread, but like a car accident, im drawn to look...

I can relate, but if that's the case, YOU shouldn't have asked me to provide examples that you had no intention of reading or responding to.

I posted that back when i was still semi interested in arguing this thread

[fookgub]

I really tried to stay away from this thread... but there's one point I haven't seen mentioned yet, and it's been bugging me.

There are not any BAD reviews (that I could find) of Zachary's stuff on the internet.

You guys can argue back and forth about whether or not he writes his own reviews, but the fact remains that there are no dissatisfied customers out there trashing him. If he's sold even half of the guitars listed on his site, and no one was angry enough to write a bad review, then I guess he must be doing something right.

[P90]

Since this seems to be the never-ending Zach guitar thread, could I just pop one question in here:

They mostly seem to have 2 pickups, one vol, and 2 switches.

Are those 2 switches simply to switch each respective pickup between single/dbl coil mode?

If so, then are those 2 pickups wired in paralel to the ONE vol control?

(essentially both pickups are always on, and there's no way to adjust the relative vol of each one?)

[Mickguard]

There are not any BAD reviews (that I could find) of Zachary's stuff on the internet.

Well, let's put it this way...if you had just dropped $2000 on a guitar with some obvious problems (not merely a dent, but things like that weird raised bridge), would you go crowing about it? Probably not.

And yeah, a lot of the things that Greg pointed out don't necessarily bother me--that is, if it's something I'm building myself. And the little flaws I find on the MIJ strat I bought for 250 euros only make it more endearing to me. But if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a guitar, then I'm going to be a lot more demanding.

Now, it's easy enough to add reviews in Harmony Central --anyone who wants to dissect the problems of any individual Zachary guitars in a review can and perhaps should do so. I say should because a prospective buyer ought to be warned about the various 'features' he's likely to encounter on the guitar he buys.

To the guy's credit though, it seems like he finishes the guitar, posts photos, and only then sells it. So the buyer has had an opportunity to check out the flaws for himself.

And threads like these help me out a LOT --they ratchet up my own sense of self-criticism, and my own demands for my own build goals. I got into this with a 'good enough' attitude --I'm now hopeful that I'll one day reach 'good'.