Squier Vs. Fender Bodies

[crafty]

Figures it'd take a couple of damn Okies to wade through the crap.

I'm finding that I have a low tolerance for BS as I age not-so-gracefully. Speaking of which, my ten-year high school reunion should be this year, I'll have to keep an eye on Night School's gig schedule and see if it coincides with when I'll be down there, provided they actually plan a reunion for this year.

[weaponepsilon]

[DrummerDude]

That guy from the other forum made a comparison between most Squier Telecaster series - Affinity, Master, Standard, Vintage Modified, Deluxe, etc. and he claimed that they all had awry routed body cavities that are just roughly shaped holes, bad body wood and that their hardware rarely matches anything else but themselves.

He said that Fender Telecaster bridges and pickups don't fit or misfit in those Squier bodies and that the metal electronics cover plates are either smaller or bigger than those on most modern Fenders.

Again, I don't know if this is true but it sure sounds bad. Especially to cheap but prejudice guys like me who want to buy a Squier.

Now I will have to think twice.

Do you have any impressions of those Squier series and how do they compare according your experience?

Thanks!

[crafty]

Well, they're cheaper for a reason. The quality is about as good as it's ever gonna get with the parts they're using to build the Squier guitars. I guarantee if they used the same parts they use on the American series, the overall quality of the instruments would be on par with the most expensive models, but that's not why they build the Squier series.

Truth is, a lot of the solid finish Squiers are plywood, and even most of the upmarket Squiers are multipiece bodies too. The hardware is pot metal, pickups are nothing to write home about, and the fretwork is better than the guitars found at Target only in that the fret ends probably won't cut your hands up on the sides of the neck. Other than all that, they're great guitars.

One of my old music teachers had a Squier II Strat back in the day. It was white with lime green DiMarzio HS-2s. Awesome guitar, a lot better than anything that says Squier on it now.

[marksound]

I just have to add that I have a Squier 51 (Overstock.com blowout) that is lightweight, sounds great, and the frets are better than most cheap guitars. All it needs is a little mod for rewiring to a 3-way blade switch and a tone control to be another great workhorse. For me. YMMV.

[WezV]

I really like the squier 51's, they make great guitars with a couple of little upgrades and at least its unique to squier - although apparently the custom shop have had to make a few 'proper' fender versions.

I also have a spangly blue squier supersonic sitting in me bedroom although thats my girlfriends and she wont let me respray it. Its also a japanese made squier so MIJ quality

[DrummerDude]

Here is a pic I made by joining two photos together just to show one of the differences between Fender and Squier Affinity bodies.

I don't know if the other Squier series have that same ridiculously large pit for installing the bridge pickup in.

Maybe the Stnadard series are better and closer to the original Fender pickup routing???

I don't know.

I could not find any naked photos of dissassmbled Squier Standard bodies to compare.

Do you have any?

[cherokee6]

The newer Squiers as with the Mexican Fender products are routed a bit differently to allow more flexibility in pickup configurations vs a specific routing for each type. It's a "one body fits all" type of thing. What you want to know. as mentioned earlier as where the body was made and in what year. The mid-80's Squiers made at Fender Japan are vastly superior to the modern ones, as their quality was on par with, if not better than the Fenders made in USA.

You also have to remeber that swamp ash was considered a useless wood until 50 or so years ago that it became useful in the elec. git trade. And, Leo was looking for the cheapest and most easily mass produced parts and components to put the gits together. So a "muttwood" as someone has descibed it may be ok, but the Fender Japan gits were alder, boxwood generally speaking. I'm suer there were a couple of others added tp the list. I have 4 of them and they all sound great!

[WezV]

I wouldnt be to worried about that extra little bit of routing on the tele bridge but you do tend to see more 'swimming pool' routes on the cheaper guitars, just the way of the world.

That squier looks fairly solid, i think i can see grain that matches the top running through the pickup cavity. So its quite well made for the price - but look at the wood quality compared to the fender equivelent. In particular look at the grain of the ash at the edge of the body and the fact there is obviously no joins, and the finish lets the wood speak for itself. Then look at the squier, it has a dull grain (most likely alder), its made of at least 4 peices and it has knots in it, on this the finish partially obscures the grain. They both may sound great as guitars but you can see the difference in price and quality of components quite clearly - its just as you would expect, especially if you were buying a MIA fender

The big problem i have with the squier in this photo - its not string-through-body. thats going to make it sound inferior to the real tele and how much would 6 extra holes and a pack of string ferrules really have added to the price? But do you really think fender would let the squiers be as good as its more aspirational models - it learnt that lesson with the MIJ's years ago.

[marksound]

You can't ignore the fact that the Squier Affinity Tele has a street price of $169. Complete. Strings and everything. Try buying that 51(?)RI body for that.

[DrummerDude]

I am trying to learn whether the Squier Standard series have that same cheap and disgusting "swimming pool" routing.

I need to buy a cheap Telecaster copy that I will customize but I need it to be close to a real Telecaster even under the pickguard and the bridge plate.

Huge pickup cavities kill the sustain (and since the Affinity series of Squiers are not string-thru body, the sustain on these toys would be even worse).

Gotta find a photo of a stripped Squier Standard and examine it - hopefully, the pickup routing would be closer to a real Fender Telecaster.

Or maybe not?

[crafty]

You can't ignore the fact that the Squier Affinity Tele has a street price of $169. Complete. Strings and everything. Try buying that 51(?)RI body for that.

No doubt. I love the Affinity Tele that they were making with the blonde Alder body last year. I almost bought one at MFCC for $120. Great guitar, lightweight, one of the better Squiers. Not a big fan of the '51 just because of the sharp fret ends on most of the ones I've played.

Huge pickup cavities kill the sustain (and since the Affinity series of Squiers are not string-thru body, the sustain on these toys would be even worse).

Okay, Mr. Tufnel, since when do huge pickup cavities kill the sustain?

[weaponepsilon]

I was out at the shop where I bought all those parts from and I noticed that hanging on the wall was the EXACT bass they had sold me except (understandably) complete and for $299. That is a Squier Affinity P bass. I guess I suddenly dont feel like I'm just using some crap body anymore. :D

[DrummerDude]

Huge pickup cavities kill the sustain (and since the Affinity series of Squiers are not string-thru body, the sustain on these toys would be even worse).

Okay, Mr. Tufnel, since when do huge pickup cavities kill the sustain?

Well, Mr. St. Hubbins, I knew it that this would start a **** storm but it's more of a purist thing.

Maybe it is BS, or maybe it is true - who knows, but fact is that most people belive that the more wood on the way of the strings, the more rigid the whole assembly and thus - more sustain.

Large cavities take off too much material and people like it when there is more wood in their electric guitars than air.

It is just the opposite with acoustic guitars, though.

[marksound]

Voodoo. Pure voodoo. In the 70s everybody "knew" that a big heavy brass bridge and nut on a big heavy Les Paul was the ultimate in sustain. Made a lot of chiropractors fat and happy.

So then, EVH's hacked up Frankie should have a huge "doink" factor. The basswood Jems should be even doinkier. Chambered LPs should just be burned. Swamp ash? Pfft. Driftwood. How about all those Strats and Teles with humbuckers? Boat paddles.

IMO, this quest for "sustain" is bogus. You should be after "tone" and preferably "technique".

[DrummerDude]

^ All you said is true, but those softwood bodied guitars do not sustain as much as the hardwood, rigid construction ones.

Yes, they sure work and many brands use them, but no they don't have that monstrous sustain many people are after.

The neck-thru construction is there to prove that the quest for sustain is not that bogus.

This does not mean that guys don't use bolt-ons made of basswood and swamp ash, of course they do.

About huge pickup cavities:

Let's just say that some folks like it when the guitar has neat pickup routings that fit the pickups' base tightly and not huge caves that you could park a truck in.

Anyway, the topic is about Squier bodies vs Fender bodies.

Another thing that grabs my attention is that the "swimming pool" cavity on the Squier body has its top part routed at an angle that would hardly fit any Fender Tele bridge pickup without leaning it to the wrong direction.

The upper part of the base on a genuine Fender Telecaster bridge pickup must be paralel to the bridge and the pickguard base, but in the case with that Squier from the pic above it is sloped.

What kind of a pickup fits in that cavity?

I guess it is a special Squier pickup with a large base. Or at least it must be something different than the standard Fender bridge pickup.

Or do they just put in a pickup careless of whether its base follows the cavity routing? After all with a hole that big who cares about the pickup's shape? :D

Edited March 27, 2007 by DrummerDude

[WezV]

What kind of a pickup fits in that cavity?

Any kind of pickup they want. As mentioned by cherokee6 before - squier are after a versatile pickup routing that lets them put any pickup in there guitars without having to re-tool the factory. The tele above will take a humbucker or tele bridge pickup without modification

[Reaper]

Even if excessive routing DOES kill sustain, I don't think the extra two ounces of wood they punch out of that Squier are really going to have a huge impact on the tone or sustain of the instrument.

[marksound]

I believe DrummerDude is trolling again.

[DrummerDude]

I believe DrummerDude is trolling again.

And you are wrong again.

[weaponepsilon]

SUSTAIN?!

I don't know man, I guess it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. See, I've told people who have asked me to custom make them a guitar or something simply, "what do you want it to do?" You really can't justify the "sustain factor" if it isn't going to be used for a sustain style of playing. Imagine: Top shelf, naturally aged lumber; hand wound pickups; custom bridge; stainless steel frets; brass nut...All which are in place to add clarity and sustain...rigged though a deathmetal distortion pedal, Weeping demon wah, overdrive, Marshall amp with muddied settings, and cranked 8x10. You get the picture. It cancels itself out.

[WezV]

Personally i have come across very few modern guitars that had problems with sustain that could not be solved by a good set-up - or to say it another way - most modern guitars are built well enough to function as a musical instrument with a normal amount of sustain neccisary for almost all playing styles. Sometimes they are not put together well enough and need some tweaking

[DrummerDude]

Back to Squier guitars.

I intend to buy a Squier Telecaster, mod it and turn it into a playable guitar.

But since I'd like to have a close copy of a Fender, I simply don't like that huge pit on the Affinity series - forget about sustain, the large cavity is just ugly and kills the whole idea of having a Fender copy. Fenders don't have huge and freehand-shaped cavites.

Oh yeah, the cavity is under the bridge plate and no body will ever see that it is there but it will bug *ME* to know that it is there.

I will have to fill it with wood and re-route the whole bridge pickup cavity. Too much work for a cheap mod.

My question was about the Squier Standard series. Do they sport that same huge pickup cavity as the Squier Affinity series do?

Or does it all depend on the year and country of production?

If they all are routed like a Real Fender, I will just pay extra $20 and buy myself a Squier Stand.

[Odin]

I work in a music store from time to time and i have blindfold tested every Fender and Squire there is. (at least in my country)

The result is alway the same..the american made Fenders do always win the test. BUT i would like to have someone from Fender tell me why i have to pay sometimes 10 times the amount to get an american made guitar. The difference is not that big.

Any suggestions to what i can tell my customers who ask that question? ..other than status and american sallary.

Why cant Fender build theire best guitars i taiwan?

[marksound]

DD, the Squier Standard Tele body is agathis. "Real" USA Fenders aren't agathis. They're alder or ash.