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Hey Wammi

I'm looking to install an original 2300 on a strat,but I'd rather like to recess it into

the body. Does Kahler have routing templates to do this? I have a template to rout

for the cam assembly,but I'm having a hard time finding a template for the body

of the bridge shape itself.

If not, do you know anyone who can make a template, or where I could find one?

I can do the layout and can do the routing myself,I'd rather not pay extra

and send the body out and have it done by someone else...

If Kahler would design one of these, I'll be the first in line to buy one!!!!

No we do not have full recess routing templates. I must stress though, that recessing a strat is not Standard Operating Procedures. I feel you wont have the saddle height to achieve your action if you recess too low. You will need about .600 from saddle top to body. Also if you plan to use the lock feature, a trough will need to be made for allen wrench access to it. I will be interested in the outcome of your experiment. If you want you can simply remove the cam from the frame (it will sit flat then) and use the frame for your outline.

Hey Thanks for replying

I'm planning on going 5/32" deep,and 3/32" forward from the original 25 1/4" layout

as per Dan Erlewine's instructions in "Guitar Player Repair Guide" book as well as his

"Installing Tremolos" video I purchased from Stew Mac. This method allows you to get

the height you need for tone/sustain without having to shim the neck.

As for the trem lock, that won't be an issue as I have an early model 2300...although

I have to admit the concept is interesting....I may have to purchase a new trem later on.

I have a dogged up body that I'll be trying this out on before trying it on the "real deal".

It's already routed for the cam assembly,and like you said, I have traced around the frame

with a sharpie.

Warmouth offers the full recess routing on their bodies,so if I can't otherwise find the resources

I'll go ahead and bite the bullet and order a body with the routing. If I succeed,I will certainly

post an update here ASAP.

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Wammi,I have a strat style guitar with a 2320.I love the guitar and the bridge.......I guess the rolles are brass and I wanted to know if changing those to steel rollers would improve sustain ...

Thanks for any help.

Aharon

It will, yes. Its not real dramatic but its a bit crisper sounding.

I have the 6 the rollers,to change them i push the pin out.......is it reusable or will the pin be ruined,do you sell replacement pins?.

Thanks

Aharon

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Wammi,I have a strat style guitar with a 2320.I love the guitar and the bridge.......I guess the rolles are brass and I wanted to know if changing those to steel rollers would improve sustain ...

Thanks for any help.

Aharon

It will, yes. Its not real dramatic but its a bit crisper sounding.

I have the 6 the rollers,to change them i push the pin out.......is it reusable or will the pin be ruined,do you sell replacement pins?.

Thanks

Aharon

Here are the instruction for roller replacement.....

Tools needed:

A hammer. ( the smaller the better)

.050 - 1/16” punch to tap out the pin. (jewelers hex driver works great from Radio Shack)

A block of steel or metal with a screw hole through it.

A small block of wood, preferably soft wood.

1) Unloosen the Phillips screw on the top of the saddle and slide the fork out.

2) Look at both sides of the pin in the fork. Note that one side is smooth and the other looks like it was snapped off.

3) Lay the fork on its side with the forks to the left and with the pin over the hole of the block. Push the pin out by placing the punch on the smooth side and gently tap out. The pin will fall into the hole you made in the block. Save the pin.

4) Remove the roller from the fork. And insert new roller in its place and secure with the pin.

BUT FIRST….

5) Notice the pin closely. One side is sanded and tapered a bit for easy entry. and the other side is simply cut off.

6) Insert pin, tapered end first while twisting and lining up roller. Once through the roller the pin will stop.

7) Lay the saddle on its side on a block of wood and gently tap the pin back in flush with the side of the fork. PLEASE NOTE: the pin will protrude a tiny bit on the other side. It is actually by design, a tiny bit longer and will stick out the far side a tiny bit. THIS IS NORMAL. This is why you want to use a shock absorbent block of wood, this way you can tap the pin flush and it will simply come out on the other side and stab into the soft, protecting wood.

8) Repeat process with all 6 saddles.

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I'm installing a 7415 on a bass I'm building from scratch, and I noticed that bass installation hasn't been brought up yet in this thread. Here's the build thread.

I'm currently at 3/4" depth of rout and I routed with a 1/2 inch bit while was doing pickup cavities, should I take that to an inch depth with a 3/8" bit as per the guitar instructions?

Also, what's the minimum saddle height I can have? hould the angle be at 10:30 as on the guitars? And does the rearward saddle situation change things on that front?

And without a locking nut is there anything to worry about? I noticed Victor Wooten has a brass nut with his Kahler'd bass, should I do that or am I fine with bone?

Also I've got a slight worry about the .130 fitting the roller securely as my instructor remarked upon seeing the bridge "I believe you B string will sound like a well executed fart, but that's a cool piece of machinery".

Thanks in advance

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I'm installing a 7415 on a bass I'm building from scratch, and I noticed that bass installation hasn't been brought up yet in this thread. Here's the build thread.

I'm currently at 3/4" depth of rout and I routed with a 1/2 inch bit while was doing pickup cavities, should I take that to an inch depth with a 3/8" bit as per the guitar instructions?

Also, what's the minimum saddle height I can have? hould the angle be at 10:30 as on the guitars? And does the rearward saddle situation change things on that front?

And without a locking nut is there anything to worry about? I noticed Victor Wooten has a brass nut with his Kahler'd bass, should I do that or am I fine with bone?

Also I've got a slight worry about the .130 fitting the roller securely as my instructor remarked upon seeing the bridge "I believe you B string will sound like a well executed fart, but that's a cool piece of machinery".

Thanks in advance

yes go to 1 inch.

keep at 10.30 like guitars.

No worries on nut, lube liberally with thick white grease. Works best when strings go straight thru nut to tuners. no fan-out.

It will fit secure in the notch of the roller and your fart will smell..er, sound like roses. go for it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi John,

I'd like to ask you about Kahlers and Piezo Transducers.

is there any projects or ideas on how to do it?. I'm very interested in this topic because I'm a Kahler fan, and a Piezo fan too, so I'd like to know your opinion about it.

I must say that I'm not the first one with this idea, check out this link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wizgard

If you or someone else have any ideas about it, please let us know.

Thanks in advance,

TR

By the way, here is a link to a page that offers the solution for self-building under saddles transducer.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/Pie...xTransducer.htm

In your opinion do you think that this hand made system works with the Kahler?

Thanks in advance

TR

Edited by kaisentomy
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Hi John,

I'd like to ask you about Kahlers and Piezo Transducers.

is there any projects or ideas on how to do it?. I'm very interested in this topic because I'm a Kahler fan, and a Piezo fan too, so I'd like to know your opinion about it.

I must say that I'm not the first one with this idea, check out this link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wizgard

If you or someone else have any ideas about it, please let us know.

Thanks in advance,

TR

By the way, here is a link to a page that offers the solution for self-building under saddles transducer.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/Pie...xTransducer.htm

In your opinion do you think that this hand made system works with the Kahler?

Thanks in advance

TR

There is not much i can add. From Kahlers standpoint there is nothing to offer, not to say it hasn't been looked into at one time, because it was looked into and experimented with back in the late 80's. But at this time, it is not an option. And honestly i am not an expert at acoustic piezo systems so i cant even start to give you advice, however when i asked someone high up about that question, they said no, it would not work on a Kahler in their opinion.

Edited by Wammi
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Hi,

I am setting up my Flyer but I do not understand the saddles at 10:30 thing. ?? What should be pointing at 10:30?

Thanks... I always like it when manufacturers take an interest in their clientele.

edit: oh wait I think I get it... it is more obvious what is meant when looking at the 2300 saddles. I have .55 in. from the guitar top to the bottom of the hi E roller saddle so I'mm in the ball park I guess.

Kiira

Edited by uglogirl
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Hi,

I am setting up my Flyer but I do not understand the saddles at 10:30 thing. ?? What should be pointing at 10:30?

Thanks... I always like it when manufacturers take an interest in their clientele.

edit: oh wait I think I get it... it is more obvious what is meant when looking at the 2300 saddles. I have .55 in. from the guitar top to the bottom of the hi E roller saddle so I'mm in the ball park I guess.

Kiira

you got it. you just need a bend over the rollers for good contact while divebombing. 10-10:30 is good.

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Most of you don't know me. Those that do,.. know me as John at Kahler Parts. I am the Parts, Service and Support head at Kahler USA.

If anyone needs some Kahler questions answered I'll be glad to help you. Its my job.

If you want to hear a Kahler live, or need some 1 on 1 help, I will be happy to call you on the phone or better yet...If your able, i can Skype or MSN messenger you with my PC video camera and give you a E-jam Lol. Privately email me at wammi@wammiusa.com

I will arrange with you a private showing of the range and sound.

If any of you out there are familiar with streaming live or videos that can be displayed on the web, please email me. I am unfamiliar in this territory but I am anxious to post lessons and demos of the sound, ranges and techniques ect. I need some expert video posting guidence here.

Wammi J

www.wammiusa.com (951) 541-2387 :D

www.kahlerparts.com (760) 494-5969

:D

..................................................................................................................................................

Hi, first post! 2300 series 8 string black, Beautiful piece of engineering, v cool design!

Do Kahler offer a mdf template for their trems, if not, why not? Much better idea than us making our own , and v inexpensive to do quantities surely?

There was no protective card between the fine tuners and the rear 'stop plate'. It arrived with the trem tuners wedged against the rear, the tuners are very abrasive, and there are two areas where the f/tuners are v slightly scratched; ok you can lock it but there is a lot of tension there if your fingers slip while you are doing it and it bangs back, as I found out! Ouch, never been assaulted by a tremolo before!

Any news/dimensions on an 8 string lock nut for this one? Opinions, which is the better trem , the 2200 or the 2300?

Ta Pete uk!

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Most of you don't know me. Those that do,.. know me as John at Kahler Parts. I am the Parts, Service and Support head at Kahler USA.

If anyone needs some Kahler questions answered I'll be glad to help you. Its my job.

Wammi J

www.wammiusa.com (951) 541-2387 :D

www.kahlerparts.com (760) 494-5969

:D

..................................................................................................................................................

Hi, first post! 2300 series 8 string black, Beautiful piece of engineering, v cool design!

Do Kahler offer a mdf template for their trems, if not, why not? Much better idea than us making our own , and v inexpensive to do quantities surely?

There was no protective card between the fine tuners and the rear 'stop plate'. It arrived with the trem tuners wedged against the rear, the tuners are very abrasive, and there are two areas where the f/tuners are v slightly scratched; ok you can lock it but there is a lot of tension there if your fingers slip while you are doing it and it bangs back, as I found out! Ouch, never been assaulted by a tremolo before!

Any news/dimensions on an 8 string lock nut for this one? Opinions, which is the better trem , the 2200 or the 2300?

Ta Pete uk!

Im sorry to hear that about the tuners. They usually never stick. I have not heard this anyway but, if you email through the proper channels at info@kahlerusa.com we will fix you up.

About the news for locknuts...they are available now in 7 and 8 string versions. I have them at http://www.wammiusa.com/5538.html for $79.

About the template...Kahler does not offer any templates. It is their belief that they are not needed if you know what you are doing. Frankly I can't blame them. Its happened before and it'll happen again. There are too many young budding guitarists with little woodworking and measuring skills that would gladly try and save a buck or two and try to "wing it" themselves........... and then blame it on Kahler when it doesn't turn out right. That's why this time around, Kahler wants everyone to use a proper Luthier practiced in the art of Kahler placement, mounting and setup. (a good luthier can do it free hand, practically with his eyes closed like Neal Moser of MCS fame.) This way everyone has a good experience. FYI: You can take the 2300 template out of the catalog and cut it in half to extend the straight lines on the width. Then just line up the screw holes on each half. Thats just as good as a template.

The 2200 and 2300 are the same. Neither is better than the other. They are different only in the way they mount to your guitar.

Wammi

Edited by Wammi
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That's why this time around, Kahler wants everyone to use a proper Luthier practiced in the art of Kahler placement, mounting and setup. (a good luthier can do it free hand, practically with his eyes closed like Neal Moser of MCS fame.) This way everyone has a good experience.

That's an incredibly bad idea. Kahler's have been off the new market for so long that there's probably not very many people around who've used one, much less installed one. Also, yes, a good luthier can do it free hand, but any luthier I'd pay to do it better be using a template. There are few people out there who'll route a pickup route on a Strat without a template.

I've noticed that people who build guitars tend to be a lot more detail-oriented than most carpenters and are addicted to their precious cache of templates. Doesn't Floyd Rose and Fernandes include templates with their trems and sustainer systems?

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That's why this time around, Kahler wants everyone to use a proper Luthier practiced in the art of Kahler placement, mounting and setup. (a good luthier can do it free hand, practically with his eyes closed like Neal Moser of MCS fame.) This way everyone has a good experience.

That's an incredibly bad idea. Kahler's have been off the new market for so long that there's probably not very many people around who've used one, much less installed one. Also, yes, a good luthier can do it free hand, but any luthier I'd pay to do it better be using a template. There are few people out there who'll route a pickup route on a Strat without a template.

I've noticed that people who build guitars tend to be a lot more detail-oriented than most carpenters and are addicted to their precious cache of templates. Doesn't Floyd Rose and Fernandes include templates with their trems and sustainer systems?

We feel its a good idea and i'm sorry you feel that way, but it is what it is. FYI: we have well over 100 established Kahler installers around the USA. And we have about 10 a day coming on board. Many from the past. Also Kahler never was out of business totally. We have been in biz for over 35 years now and were selling the trems to BC Rich and ESP through the 90's as well as Moser MCS and quite a few others. It only re-became a public venue in 2005. The end user couldn't buy one but thousands were sold to OEMS. Mostly custom shops. The parts dept was unmanned during that time. Its old history. Water under the bridge.

Wammi

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From what I've read, which doesn't mean a whole lot, Kahler's problems didn't stem from people incorrectly installing the trems, but rather cheap copies of the Kahler design flooding the market and putting the company into receivership. I'm just kind of curious about why one would pay up to and over $200 for a bridge that comes with minimal installation support other than "take it to a qualified luthier, who may have never installed one but can probably freehand the route". I see from your website that you've put up a wealth of information and I sincerely commend your efforts, but I think you'd have even better success by developing and introducing a router template and detailed instructions that people can opt to purchase if they'd like to attempt the installation themselves.

Yes, you'll have a few people here and there who screw up and mess up their guitars, but no more than the hackjobs who buy a set of EMGs and short out the preamps.

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Remeber that Floyd doesn't supply templates either... it was the demand that made luthiers start making them, and now Stew sells them too. Wait a few months and you will see a Kahler template there if not at other sites that sell templates.

I'm upset at the fact that I started to build the guitar without having the template on my hands! This is the only mistake that I made. Not their fault but mine. And we (at least the few of us that have been working with wood for a minute) can make a Kahler template in less than 10 minutes, they supply you with a cardboard template, just trace and use a straight edge to rout it out! I even recessed mine free handed with my dremel!!!

There are other more things to think about other than a template!

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Remeber that Floyd doesn't supply templates either... it was the demand that made luthiers start making them, and now Stew sells them too. Wait a few months and you will see a Kahler template there if not at other sites that sell templates.

I'm upset at the fact that I started to build the guitar without having the template on my hands! This is the only mistake that I made. Not their fault but mine. And we (at least the few of us that have been working with wood for a minute) can make a Kahler template in less than 10 minutes, they supply you with a cardboard template, just trace and use a straight edge to rout it out! I even recessed mine free handed with my dremel!!!

There are other more things to think about other than a template!

Thanks maiden for that. FYI The catalog that comes with all bridges has a 23/7300 template which is exactly the same as a 7 or 8 string but just wider. You simply cut the template in half and spread the 2 halves apart and extend the width lines. Soooo easy.

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From what I've read, which doesn't mean a whole lot, Kahler's problems didn't stem from people incorrectly installing the trems, but rather cheap copies of the Kahler design flooding the market and putting the company into receivership. I'm just kind of curious about why one would pay up to and over $200 for a bridge that comes with minimal installation support other than "take it to a qualified luthier, who may have never installed one but can probably freehand the route". I see from your website that you've put up a wealth of information and I sincerely commend your efforts, but I think you'd have even better success by developing and introducing a router template and detailed instructions that people can opt to purchase if they'd like to attempt the installation themselves.

Yes, you'll have a few people here and there who screw up and mess up their guitars, but no more than the hackjobs who buy a set of EMGs and short out the preamps.

FYI The catalog that comes with all bridges has a 23/7300 template which is exactly the same as a 7 or 8 string but just wider. You simply cut the template in half and spread the 2 halves apart and extend the width lines. Soooo easy.

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Hi all,

I'm interested in the fixed bridge 7330 and I would like to know the maximum and minimum string height in the

saddles, thats the bridge height, in order to figure the neck angle. Anybody can help me ?

Thanks a lot!

.680

And... what about the minimum ?

Thanks

.500

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  • 4 weeks later...
Hey Wammi

I'm looking to install an original 2300 on a strat,but I'd rather like to recess it into

the body. Does Kahler have routing templates to do this? I have a template to rout

for the cam assembly,but I'm having a hard time finding a template for the body

of the bridge shape itself.

If not, do you know anyone who can make a template, or where I could find one?

I can do the layout and can do the routing myself,I'd rather not pay extra

and send the body out and have it done by someone else...

If Kahler would design one of these, I'll be the first in line to buy one!!!!

Hey Skyflash

Hope I'm not too late to be of assistance,

I'ts EASY-----

Just route the main hole for the trem, but a little bit deeper,

say, about 3/16", (the thickness of the trem body/plate) depending on

how low you have to go.

Then sit the trem in position and draw around with a pencil

and there's your routing guide !!!!!!

That's how I did mine about 15 years ago, worked fine, and still working !!!!

The top of the trem body/plate is set flush to the top of the guitar.

I had to do this because I had set the neck in my new guitar with

too-little angle, and didn't want to CUT the neck off and start again !!!!!

(Go here to see me with this guitar: http://www.tagworld.com/iondrive )

Cheers

green_axeman

(Australia)

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