Being Authentic With A Cool Body Design

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

Ok... So I love the Warmoth WGD body. I know, I know some band who is often hated by many people played it... I don't care who played it! Look at the thing! It's gorgeous! So... that aside, It only comes in the 1 3/4 inch thickness with an optional 1/8 inch laminate which won't alter the sound. What can I do to get that wonderfull 'two wood' tone? How can I get a yaknow Koa/Maple/whatever I feel like top on (I don't care wheather or not the thing is carved... I like tone)?

Or should I follow my other attraction: PRS. There is just something great about those guitars. (I've never owned one... In fact all I've got is a cheap LP but what the hey). The reason I'm going more for the WGD is because it is a bit cheaper, and with all the other electronics I have planned... (whew!) ... ... ...

If you have any Ideas of how I can get a top/bottom WGD tha't'ed be great!

SF on PRS

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/bodies/wgd.cfm

[GregP]

WGD it.

[Drak]

You mean something like this?

I call this design the 'Full Metal Garcia', or 'Interplanetary Jerry'.

:D

[fryovanni]

Maybe now would be a good time to give yourself a break on the over thinking the "tone wood". Sounds like in your last three posts you are caught in the viscious cycle of marketing hype and small points. Best thing you can do is move forward with the building and functional aspects of how a guitar operates(scale length, intonation, set up, proper glue joints, fretting, proper preperation of wood, templates, jigs, and so forth). When your first starting you can really lose yourself in options, and hype/myth/rumor/mis-information/exageration. This is why many very experienced builders have made guitars that sound and play great out of very inexpensive, less marketed woods and materials(such as Pine, or even paper mache*classical guitar). The idea not being that these are the materials they prefer to use as much as they are driving the point home that it is more about how well you build the instrument(not so much what you build it out of).

Just a suggestion, but of course do what makes you happy. Building is all about having fun and enjoying the process.

Drak- Those are pretty sharp(sorry for the bad pun) looking bods

Peace,Rich

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

Ok... I'll answer each of your posts individually... but first... would a WGD make me look like a whatever fan... cause I'm Switchfoot through and through and through again. Oh well...

GregP : Ok... thanks for ya input

Drak : I suppose the body is cool, but WAY too sharp. I don't play metal. I'm rock, maybe blues and whatever. Look at Warmoth's take on the matter... ROUND. Thanks

Fryovanni : Point taken. Right now I'm not looking to actually start building anything. All hypothetical. I've never built a guitar and don't plan to for a while. I do see what you're saying, but I've played SG's and LP's and the LP sounds SOOOO much better and complex... the SG has the sophistication of wet paper (peace... to my ears... no offense)... SO I want multiple woods (two should do da trik). And the fact that it is Maple + Mahogany gives it a bright/dark sound wich adds all the greatness. Correct me if i'm wrong. So I really want to have something like that. I love the LP sound, but it gets really old. Da WGD looks SPECTACULAR. But I don't like metal. I also wanna think of wood grains since I plan to not really paint the guitar (just finish it with something less glossy) and make it look cool.

One last note: I'm not really a builder for sentimental value... I would buy a guitar with the exact specifications of what I'm scribbling down in these notes if one existed for any reasonable price. So I intend to buy everything (whenever I actually do get around to this - if ever -) as close to finished as I can from WARMOTH. Just tell them what I want, get the sweet parts, bolt them on (If one can do some sorta glue on from Warmoth, I'd love that kinda stuff, although I plan to attempt psw's sustainer mod, so the option of less sustain may actually be a benefit), wire up the electronics and play away on...maybe an epiphone amp, peavy, whatever as long as it's tube and can sound somewhat similar to a Marshall or AC30. So I'm not very heroic. I will, however love any cost-cutting ideas (evil smile).

Ok thanks. Can any of you get me a picture of the actuall WGD used by whatshisface? thanks!

SF on PRS...maybe WGD from now on (SMILE)

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

By the way, I wanna have a 3 humbucker routing...

Neck: psw's sustaioner (no pickup so far in my ideas)

Middle: DiMarzio FRED with a heavy cover

Bridge: Something with Magnetic Polepieces for really authentic single coils (Maybe I'll put two singles together..would that work??)

Volume for each pickup, Coil Tap Pushpull

Tone (boost or cut) for each pickup, Phase Swap Pushpull

Sustainer Gain, Sustainer/Middle Pickup (bridge always on) Pushpull

Frequency of Tone (which frequency to boost/cut, mid/bass/treble THink about it, constantly variable and ya don't need the torres thing...), Paralell/Series

That's what I've got so far

THANK'EE

[fryovanni]

Fryovanni : Point taken. Right now I'm not looking to actually start building anything. All hypothetical. I've never built a guitar and don't plan to for a while. I do see what you're saying, but I've played SG's and LP's and the LP sounds SOOOO much better and complex... the SG has the sophistication of wet paper (peace... to my ears... no offense)... SO I want multiple woods (two should do da trik). And the fact that it is Maple + Mahogany gives it a bright/dark sound wich adds all the greatness. Correct me if i'm wrong. So I really want to have something like that. I love the LP sound, but it gets really old. Da WGD looks SPECTACULAR. But I don't like metal. I also wanna think of wood grains since I plan to not really paint the guitar (just finish it with something less glossy) and make it look cool.

The most important thing is that you have fun with your build .

With an electric your wood selection in terms of tone is going to make a very slight difference(all though it is important to all of us). When you realise how much of a difference there can be from piece to piece within a species. It becomes really clear that the generalizations and expectations are pretty overblown. I can tell you that no matter what species you choose. How dry the wood is will make a huge difference in how it resonates. So be sure you use very well dried and stable wood. With electrics, pickup, electronics, strings, amp and cabnet are going to be VERY improtant to your sound. Bear in mind I am one of the biggest wood nuts on this board. I do REALLY love selecting unique pieces of wood, love trying different woods, and most definately am a fan of natural finishes to show off the beauty of the wood I use.

Also, in speaking of how wood impacts overall tone. The thickness and mass/shape of your design will make as much if not more of a difference in tone v.s. what species you choose. You mention the SG an LP. There is a big difference in the body thickness and mass of those guitars. All else being equal I would expect a difference in the sound. You should use that bit of insight to help you when you are designing.

Have a great time with all your choices. This is a fun hobby, because you always have something new to try.

Peace,Rich

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

So ya'd suggest a cheap LP body with cool lookin wood for the great Switchfoot sound? Ok... sure I've considered that... although I want to be really unique

I will say, that I played (at GuitarCenter) an Epi LP standard (ithink) side by side with a Gibson LP Vintage Mahogany on da same amp. The Gibson had Burstbucker Pro's and the Epi had some nameless alnico pieces of junk. The Epi was as good or better to my ear. I attribute that to the multiple plies of wood (I tried two of both, so I wouldn't attribute it to dryness although it coulda been)

First of all, Peace. I don't want to make an enemy of you (you've been more helpful than most)

So... I am an unlearned fool who is an overheavy advotacte of wood altering tone... ohwell I'll give it some more thought

So the WGD won't sound like an LP no matter what I do I do want "my own sound", however soo I guess the only way to test the tone of the guitar is to actually build one (yikes!).

About the electronics, I haven't really heard (on cheap audio clips) much change from pickup to pickup (Yes, I know single coil to humbucker to P90 to Minihum... Not taking those changes into account)... There is the FRED vs. the 57 classic, and the swinsehead AMP... but hmmm... I suppose I look at the amount of wood as if it were species. So I'll need to rethink. Maybe I just need to focus more on the amp and effects (yes, I know, 80% of sound),.., but the schematics for the AC30 are insanely hard to follow... no selfbuilding there.

So can I get the WGD to sound similar?

And a question... how much do necks matter: if bodies are less important... what about the even more unpopular necks (YIKES! Maybe I can get a cool looking neck now!)

Ahhh... Should I just get an LP... ok that's enough questions for now...

SF on PRS/WGD/LP/WhateverI_FeelLike

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

How hard is it to make oneself's own body? can you just get a whatsitcalled (maybe this is right) jigsaw and pencil and carve away at your very dry pine... I suppose I can read that elsewhere.... So pine would work.... something cheap.... I could really experiment! Thanks SF on whatever

[mattharris75]

If you want a cheap wood, go for poplar or basswood. But seriously, read the tutorials on the front page of this site and pick up a copy of Melvyn Hiscock's book, Make Your Own Electric Guitar, and you'll find about 90% of your answers.

[verhoevenc]

No offense, but your knowledge level right now doesn't really seem to me like you're ready to start at building a guitar of your own. I think a Warmoth would be a good start for you. It takes HOURS upon HOURS of reading, studying, etc. to really grasp what it takes to build a guitar. I've been doing it a couple years now and I read like 1-2 hours each day on building forums, and I still feel inadequate knowledge wise. That said, you CAN build a guitar, sure, I've built several, but don't expect your first one to play 100% perfectly, and be up to the quality of a factory guitar. This, like anything takes time and practice to get good at. So if you want a quick fix, buy it, if you wanna get in it for the long haul, then be prepared to shell out tons of money (this is NOT a cheap hobby) and become addicted. And no, a jigsaw will get you a rough cut body, you're gunna need ALOT more than that.

Now, the next section: you're not really listening to Fryovanni. You think the "plies" in the Epiphone ADD to sound?! Not quite, the fact that they laminate their body blanks from multiple pieces is a cost cutting method, and I assure you in NO way makes it sound better. As for why the LP sounds meatier than the SG, the LP has a HUGE mass comparatively. That's one thing. Also, the LP has maple and mahogany, SG is just mahogany, so of course they will sound slightly different. As for the WDG guitar, if you put a maple top on it, it's gunna make NO difference. The only time a top wood's tonal characteristics start to come into play is in tops thicker than 1/4"... ie: carved tops, like the les paul has. Just a simple cap does not have enough material of the top wod to make any difference. Also, your thinking about woods is flawed. It's not the fact that it's made from 2 pieces of wood that gives it a nice sound, it's the fact that they've chosen those two woods to sonically complement each other. And get this... that Epiphone LP ya played, chances are it wasn't mahogany and maple. A lot of those have... wait for it... ALDER bodies. Wanna know why? Cause alder can be made to sound pretty similar to mahogany and maple mixed together (maple bright, mahogany warm, essentially they're using those to create a "blank"-ish sonic panel to then clor with electronic choices, neck woods, etc.). They just slap a flamed maple veneer over it on the Epiphones, and the average consumer is none-the-wiser.

So, what you need to stop thinking is: more types of wood = better, and start thinking, what combinations of woods are going to give me the sounds I'm looking for (and Warmoth has pages that tell you what woods sound like in general). MANY woods sound similar to each other, especially in electric guitars where wood choice is a minimal impactor on final sound. IE: A walnut topped LP would probably sound exactly the same to a maple topped LP all other things help constant. Just like a limba SG would sound spot on similar to a normal all mahogany SG.

All that said, wood choice is gunna be MINIMAL in the final sound that you achieve. You can can get your guitar to sound like pretty much whatever you want (to a certain degree of course) by scale length choice, and electronics choices, and how YOU play is another big one... ie: Carlos Santana is gunna sound like Carlos Santana no matter what guitar he plays.

What I would do if I were you. Do a little research, find out what pickups Switchfoot uses since you so badly want to sound just like them. Then, order the guitar in whatever looks good to you, and plop the same pickups they use into the thing! You'll be happy. And the slight differences in tone made by your wood choices in favor of aesthetics will be negligible, especially to you if you can't hear any difference in the way a pickup sounds.

Want me to answer everything for you: here's what cha need to do:

Buy the WGD with a "neutral" backwood (like alder). Since this guitar is unavailable with a carved top. Then, pick out whatever laminate flat-top you think is the prettiest. Buy it. And drop whatever pickups Switchfoot uses in it and play.

Chris

Edited April 8, 2007 by verhoevenc

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

Hmmm... How do I get one of those here in Hungary (Europe for those of you who are illiterate)

[verhoevenc]

You order it! And there's no need to be rude. Every single one of your posts has had some form of diction that evinces that you think we're stupid.

Examples you say?

Smartassed reply:

"GregP : Ok... thanks for ya input"

Just cause it's not what you like doesn't mean it's wrong. Drak knows a hell of a lot more than you do:

"Drak : I suppose the body is cool, but WAY too sharp. I don't play metal. I'm rock, maybe blues and whatever. Look at Warmoth's take on the matter... ROUND. Thanks"

Are you incapable of getting it yourself!?

"Can any of you get me a picture of the actuall WGD used by whatshisface?"

Don't bash others just cause you're unable to appreciate their advice:

"you've been more helpful than most"

And lastly:

"Europe for those of you who are illiterate"

there's no need for that. Hell, you're the one who's having trouble understanding stuff that's been perfectly spelled out for you, and figuring out how to have something shipped... when all you have to do is tell them where to send it!?

So just order it from Warmoth, tell them where you live, pay, and move along until you can come back with a better attitude.

Chris

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

Yah all this was hypothetical and I do have some answers to what you said. SF is playing 496R and 500T's (All Gibson exept the strat), Angus Youngs, Strat singles, and Minihum's. And I knew about the Alder. So thank you for your knowlage. And if you go up a little, you can see that I wasn't planning on doing anything soon...soo I'm just thinking for the future.

I never thought tooo much about the scale length... From what I've read they mainly affect playablility. Maybe I've just got junk sources and should listen to you.

I've never done this... (bashful smiley)

Maybe I'll just buy a guitar. I'm not really understanding (or I understand but am not willing to accept the truth).

And about the 1/8" top, I did know that that wouldn't affect the tone.

So... because I can't get this through my thick skull, pleas bear with me, how do you explain the difference betweent the Vingage Mahogany.

Is that mass, there is a weight difference, interspecies differences (mahogany to mahogany differences)?

I'm just lost

Oh well

[SwitchfootOnPRS]

I appologise. I didn't mean those the way they must have seemed. To prevent future instances of my seeming insults I think I will leave the forum. I'm sorry and I write things sorta jokingly, but in text things seem different. Anyhow, I take my leave.

One last appology.

Bye

[verhoevenc]

Vintage mahogany sounds so good cause it's been drying longer. First to leave is moisture, but over time it'll dry more, lose some of it's oils, etc. etc. and "age". This is what's giving it it's vintage-appreciated sound. And as for interspecies difference? There are TONS of trees called "mahogany" some are real mahoganies, some are not. But there's Khaya, Sapele, Genuine, Honduran, Cuban, Nato, the list goes on and on. So for one, the fact that there are multiple species called mahogany will make a difference. Also, within each species, different parts of trees have difference weight/mass, different trees will have different weight/mass, etc. etc. Tons of ways sound can differ between each piece. Whether you'll notice enough to care is up in the air...

Chris

[verhoevenc]

You don't have to leave, and me by all means has no authority to make you. I'm just saying, a better attitude is appreciated. So there's no need to leave if you can play nice. Hell, we've got people here that are around all the time and I think are jerks... and they don't leave, and at least you apologize.

Chris

[P90]

Maybe now would be a good time to give yourself a break on the over thinking the "tone wood". Sounds like in your last three posts you are caught in the viscious cycle of marketing hype and small points.

Excellent point - 99% of an electric guitars sound is the pickups, effects, and amp! There are certain companies that have perpetuated the hype of magical "tonewoods" because that's where they make their money.

[another doug]

whatshisface's guitar

When I brought up the Grateful Dead in your other thread on this subject, I was just trying to give you a bit more information. If you like the shape, go for it. It shouldn't matter who played one as long as you like it, but my point was that some people do care about that kind of thing, and I didn't want you to spend a small fortune on a Warmoth only to be embarassed by your

"hippie" guitar (although IMO the shape is kinda metal).

As verhoevenc said, there is no reason to leave the forum if you can play nice. From what I've seen, people here are more than willing to help (and they don't need to). As long as you are doing your share of the work, such as searching (and researching) before posting, not being dismissive of advice given (even if you don't ultimately use it), and being relatively polite, people will be happy to help. A lot of these people REALLY know their stuff, and share their expertise freely (and for free).

I'm still kind of a noob here myself, but I've read a LOT of posts, and if I had known about this forum earlier, my guitars would be MUCH nicer than they are! It's a great resource.

[Drak]

I was just giving you a different point of reference with my designs.

I made that design after studying pics of Jerry's guitars for several weeks, and that's the version I came up with that I liked, one could easily round off my hair metal points to any degree one would want to to reduce the pointy factor.

Personally, I'll be just as at home playing Debussy's 'Clair de Lune', or Hank Williams' 'My Bucket's Got A Hole In It' on them as Jayne County's 'If You Don't Want To F**k Me, F**k Off', ...but that's just me I suppose...I never thought the shape of a guitar had to dictate what I wanted to play on it...