All Mahogany Bass, What Do You Guys Think?

[Hector]

hi everyone,

I built some guitars, acoustic and electric. but it's time to do a bass. Since I'm not a bass player I need some help.

I'm gonna build this bass for a friend and he wants lots of low end and sustain.

if I build the body and neck with mahogany, ebony or brazilian rosewood fingerboard, neck-thru or glued long tenon, how will it sound? (the electronics will be active EMG J-set)

any suggestions?

It's gonna be my first bass, and I don't wanna make any mistakes.

[fryovanni]

hi everyone,

I built some guitars, acoustic and electric. but it's time to do a bass. Since I'm not a bass player I need some help.

I'm gonna build this bass for a friend and he wants lots of low end and sustain.

if I build the body and neck with mahogany, ebony or brazilian rosewood fingerboard, neck-thru or glued long tenon, how will it sound? (the electronics will be active EMG J-set)

any suggestions?

It's gonna be my first bass, and I don't wanna make any mistakes.

Hector, The experience you have with your electic and acoustic builds should be telling you that you are not going to get a good answer to your question. If you are not sure of your design. Look to a bass design that produces the sound and playability that is close to what you are looking for and build with that as your model for reference.

FWIW; Gauge of strings, tuning, scale length and pickups are the first things I think about on a bass. I generally like reasonable stiff necks on my basses also.

Peace,Rich

[GregP]

I'm not sure what answer you're hoping for. ;-) "How will it sound" is absolutely impossible to answer.

Since you're using active pickups and a fairly "standard" set of woods, I imagine it will sound fine. It's not like there's a disaster waiting to happen with that formula or anything.

Prolly gonna be heavy, depending on the body style you go with.

[Hector]

Hector, The experience you have with your electic and acoustic builds should be telling you that you are not going to get a good answer to your question. If you are not sure of your design. Look to a bass design that produces the sound and playability that is close to what you are looking for and build with that as your model for reference.

FWIW; Gauge of strings, tuning, scale length and pickups are the first things I think about on a bass. I generally like reasonable stiff necks on my basses also.

Peace,Rich

hi rich, Yeah, I know what you mean... and I'm only asking these questions, because I've been doing some research and noticed that many basses are being built with dense woods (laminations or not) even harder than mahogany. such as wenge, ebony, maple, rosewood, purpleheart, and many more.

Also because mahogany is all I got in my shop.

with my experience I can predict or at least have an idea of how an electric or acoustic would sound, considering all these factors (scale length, body/neck/top woods and thickness, electronics and all that) but to me the bass is a very different world.

I figured i'd better ask, gather as much info as possible and then see what makes sense to me.

[Hector]

I'm not sure what answer you're hoping for. ;-) "How will it sound" is absolutely impossible to answer.

Since you're using active pickups and a fairly "standard" set of woods, I imagine it will sound fine. It's not like there's a disaster waiting to happen with that formula or anything.

Prolly gonna be heavy, depending on the body style you go with.

yeah, i used the wrong words (english is not my native language) sorry. I know that is impossible to answer that (as a matter of fact, that is one of the coolest parts of building guitars, to put strings on a completed instrument and see how it sounds). lol. I was hoping for some input on what kind of sound I would get, not exactly, just to get idea...more treble, more bass, punchy, that kind of stuff.

one other thing, do you think I need to reinforce the neck with carbon fiber? the mahogany I got is very good quality and well quartersawn. (35" scale, 5 strings)

[fryovanni]

one other thing, do you think I need to reinforce the neck with carbon fiber? the mahogany I got is very good quality and well quartersawn. (35" scale, 5 strings)

Hector, My favorite bass to play has a graphite reinforced neck(no truss, although neck angle can be adjusted with a screw at the heel). That is not a bass that I made myself(neck is by Modulus, body is solid figured Maple-35" scale, active soapbars and undersaddle piezo). The first bass i made for myself 35" scale has hard maple and purple heart stringers, with Purpleheart core and maple caps(front and back of a thin body), slightly thicker than normal ebony fretboard, carbon fiber rods in the neck, and for electronics a passive stingray PU in the bridge pos, quarterpound P-bass in the slightly low neck position. It has a wide range of sounds that you can get from it and I also like it very much(I have always felt it was a more dynamic sounding bass). I have a bolt on(Hard Maple), 35" scale, Alder body, active jazz(EMG's) that has a nice Jazz bass sound(just no better way to describe it). I have an old 80's Ibanez Soundgear, 34.5" scale, very thin Maple neck, light weight body(actually that is the perfect description of the bass light and thin), active stock(EMG's I believe). The Ibanez is a lot of fun to play(shoot the neck is tiny compaired to a guitar, and the whole thing is feather weight), but is lacking in just about every other way.

That is about all I can tell you about the basses I have around. I hope that helps a little.

Peace,Rich

[WezV]

Lots of basses have been built with mahogany before but its not always considered the ideal choice for basses - probably because of some of the badly designed basses that have gone before.

Gibson have made a lot of solid mahogany basses in the past like the eb0, these also had a short scale and can be very muddy and unclear sounding, due to the mahogany and the short scale and the single neck pickup. Nice things but not suitable for all styles. I think these are the type of instruments that give mahogany a bad rap for basses.

They also made longer scale mahogany basses like the thunderbirds which also had more usefull pickup placement. These have a tone more suitable for most musical styles - but can still be quite dark.

In other words, it is a combination of lots of factors that will give you your final tone - i have only mentioned 3 here (wood, scale length and pickup placement). Its Ok to talk about what tone a wood will give but dont get bogged down in that way of thinking because its only a small part of the picture.

The mahogany does tend to give a darker/bassier tone not always considered usefull for modern bass sounds but i think you will be ok with it having the longers scale (35") and the EMG's, it should still have the low-end your friend wants without being too muddy.

Obviously all this talk of tone depends on the actual materials you build it from and how well you build it!!!

Personally i would use CF reinforcment. You have a softer neck wood with a longer scale and an extra string!

[GregP]

Active electronics will go a ways to return some clarity IF you end up with an otherwise dark-sounding bass. Even just a VMC from EMG might give you the punch back. Not that I'm saying it'll *definitely* be dark (I honestly don't know), just that IF it ends up a bit dark.

Greg

[Hector]

thanks for all that info guys,

I'm gonna look for a denser wood for the neck, that should balance things out. I'll let you know as soon as I decide something! and when I start the build I'm gonna post in the " in progress and finished work"

thanks again.

great forum.

great people.

[Southpa]

I might go ahead and build an all mahogany bass myself. I'm looking at my first build (all mahogany custom 6 string) and thinking about how it would look as a bass. It would be kind of cool to have twins. I know neck stability would be an issue for a solid mahogany neck. Would probably straddle the truss rod with 2 carbon rods and use an ebony fb cap. It would be a neck thru design because the original guitar was a neckthru and thats pretty much the dimension of the wood I have available. I have a headstart because I already drew fully dimensioned CAD plans.

As far as what sort of sound it will make I'm willing to find out for myself. I built an all maple tele a few years back and despite worries that it would sound too "twangy" it came out well.

[ToddW]

thanks for all that info guys,

I'm gonna look for a denser wood for the neck, that should balance things out. I'll let you know as soon as I decide something! and when I start the build I'm gonna post in the " in progress and finished work"

thanks again.

great forum.

great people.

Hi Hector,

I don't know much about bass necks, but I know a little about wood. I don't think it is a denser wood you want for the neck, but a stiffer one. If you're in Brazil, you have a lot of options. You could get a piece of flat sawn Jatoba, and laminate it in between the quarter sawn mahogany for your neck blank.

The radial to tangential wood change will match up nicely and Jatoba is very stiff. Personally, I'd use two pieces to get the nice striped effect. Turning the flat sawn Jatoba to make the center or outside laminates puts it in the appropriate growth ring orientation for a very strong neck. And even though you now have your mahogany oriented like flat sawn, that's not a bad thing since in a neck through the wings will be glued on and in that orientation. It means your neck wood and wing wood will expand and contract the same amount which might be a good thing in Brazil where your humidity varies a lot.

http://www.exotichardwoods-southamerica.co...iliancherry.htm

http://www.exotichardwoods-southamerica.co...ganygenuine.htm

Bloodwood is also stiffer, and it's not as dense as Jatoba, but I like the neck through look with lighter woods in the middle. Anyway, just thinking out loud so to speak. I'll be interested to see what you decide on.

Todd

[Odin]

I have one mahogany bass with emgs on, and it sounds good to me, but i think ill go for alder next time..lighter, and in my opinion better sounding for a bassguitar. But maybe a mahogany bass is just youre cup of tee. Go for It!

I would definitely stay away from Brazillian rosewood for other reasons than looks and sound. Lets save some for guitar builders in the future!

[weaponepsilon]

My Ibanez SR506 Is a single piece mohagany body, 5 ply bubinga wenge neck, shell inlays, paudauk fretboard (i think), Bartolini 6 pickups with active eq. POssibly the best guitar I have ever owned. sustains till dawn, and growls like a bear. Also you can tap and snap with crystal clarity of a plucked note.

[Hector]

I was able to get some ipe wood (86cm x 6cm x 3cm)

Its not long enough to make a neck thru, but maybe a bolt-on.

It's a very hard wood, many brazilian luthiers use it for fretboards.

almost impossible to plane, spent some hours sanding, and managed to get it flat.

on one side there's a bad crack that I still gonna have to see if I can avoid it.

One thing I forgot to tell you, is that I don't have the power tools nedded to make laminations for a neck thru, or multiple pieces necks. So it's gonna have to be one piece.

anyway, here's some photos of the wood,

ipe

do you think I should use it for the neck?? It's gonna be a pain in the *** to carve it, but I'm up for it!

thanks for all your help guys.

Edited April 13, 2007 by Hector

[eddiewarlock]

I built an all mahogany, neck thru body, ESP F series 5 string copy bass. I used Yamaha pickups off an RBX series 5 string bass ( you know, the model that's similar to John Myung's bass) It sounded very very good, it had a very full sound, like all the colors in the palette to say something, specially when compared to my brother's RBX 5 string bass( alder body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard) the one i built sounded just great. Definitely the 35" scale helped a lot in its sound, it was very well defined too, not muddy at all.

Everybody said it-d sound too dark but they were wrong...VERY wrong.

[Jon]

Hector, Ipe is one of the most dense woods in the world. I believe another name for it is Brazilian Walnut? Good luck carving it, huge forearms are guaranteed.

[Hector]

Hector, Ipe is one of the most dense woods in the world. I believe another name for it is Brazilian Walnut? Good luck carving it, huge forearms are guaranteed.

hey jon!

you're right. it is very dense! I think brazilian walnut is Imbuya, another name for ipe, is ,well, green ebony! lol.

it's gonna be a challenge. well see, if it turns out bad, I'll use it as a proof of my super human strenght.

[j. pierce]

I built a 34" scale bass, mahogany neck, (not nearly as quartersawn as it ought to have been) mahagany body, cocobolo fretboard, and a 1/4" walnut top. Long tenon (all the way to the bridge) set neck, hidden under the 1/4" cap. A couple of De'Armond Turbo Jet bass p'ups. The thing sounds beautiful to me, my favorite bass to play. I didn't know what I was doing back when I built it (as if I do now!) and I don't know what makes it sound like it does, but it's one of my favorite basses. A lot of low end when I need it, but not too muddy. The peak is almost in the really low mids more than the low end. I can dial in most of the tones I want, although I guess it might be missing out on the poppy Flea-style bass sound, but I don't ever do that. I can't play my more traditional fender-style basses anymore, this one just sounds so full. (Again, I can't say what makes this one sound the way it does, or why my other one's dont.)

I put two trussrods in it (after seeing the same in some Rickenbackers) but now that I know more, I would have probably used carbon reinforcement. Its the one instrument I have that needs truss rod adjustments every at the end of summer and at the end of winter. (It's not awful, but I'm particular about my setup) Maybe I didn't use well-seasoned enough wood. Like I said, I was flying rather blind when I built the thing.

[Hector]

I'm done talking.

time to start this thing!

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=29418

[Malcolm]

sounds cool go for it

[ToddW]

Hi Hector,

Figured I'd ask/post here about a laminate neck rather than derrail your other thread.

i think he was talking about a thinknesser to do a laminated neck possibly and trust me it would be exrtreamly hard to do as good a job as a thinknesser with a planer and some sand paper ive tryed it i thought i was doing an ok job but then th thicknesser did it way better

I'm not sure what Tim meant by thinknesser. I think thicknesser sounds like a planer, but that isn't actually the best tool for this job. A jointer would be the easiest. I have both a planer and a jointer, and while I agree they make preparing a couple of boards a 15 minute job instead of a 4 hour job, I have also done it the hard way on a small sclare. It's not fun, but it isn't that hard if you have patience (LOTS AND LOTS OF PATIENCE).

I have a question though, Hector, do you have a router available? A bolt on neck is thin enough that you can easily make a laminate joint with a router. It's a simple trick, you router both edges at the same time.

Todd

Edited April 18, 2007 by ToddW

[tim_ado]

http://www.acwwoodcuts.com/Cache/Pictures/...thicknesser.jpg

thats a thinknesser and a picture of a random

it will amke laminate joins perfect and i dont know a better way to do them (although im willing to learn) im guessing that a joiner is that same thing as a thinknesser

[mattharris75]

That's a thickness planer. A Joiner is similar, but works on the edge of the wood. You push the wood against a fence and run it through and it gives you a smooth edge square to the edge that was against the fence. That's what is neccessary for bookmatching tops, or making multi-piece body blanks, or that kind of thing. Really, both tools are what you need to be efficient. Of course you can do it by hand. Tim, I believe, was referring to 'hand planing' and sandpaper initially, thus his reference to a 'thicknesser', which is a thickness planer, as being the alternative.

Edited April 18, 2007 by mattharris75

[tim_ado]

ahh k do do the edges i put the planks on there side through a thinknesser but they were plank and with kinda be hard to do with the edges of a top laminate or somthing

[ToddW]

ahh k do do the edges i put the planks on there side through a thinknesser but they were plank and with kinda be hard to do with the edges of a top laminate or somthing

OK, thought that might be what you were talking about, and we do call it a planer on this side of the pond. But I wouldn't consider it a good tool for jointing boards. If the bottom isn't flat and straight, the top won't come out of the planer flat and straight. It WILL, come out parallel to the bottom. You can put your board on another board which is already jointed/flat, but even that isn't perfect.

I think of the jointer as a power version of a long hand plane (with a fence instead of a shooting board). It gives you a strait/flat edge to join to another board. If you get one edge perfect, you use the planer to make the opposite side parallel. Like Matt, I'm happy to have both, because it is too easy to make exotic boards into exotic wedges on the jointer. (Yeah, I've done that )

None of this, however, helps Hector. But a bolt on guitar neck is so thin, he can make perfect joints with a router if he has one, and that makes a laminated neck a breeze. In fact, on really long boards, a router does a better job of matching the joint line if used carefully, and, it's VERY EASY. Much easier than the plane and sandpaper. Sorry I didn't think of it before.

Todd

Edited April 18, 2007 by ToddW