Mojo Vitamin T Capacitors

[mikhailgtrski]

Mojo Vitamin T

Anybody tried them in a guitar tone/treble bleed circuit, or tube amp tonestack?

Values from .001uF to .1uF. Supposedly similar build to their "Dijon" caps, but with a mineral oil dielectric.

[Samba Pa Ti]

are they meant to sound better ?

ive read many times they dont sound any different to the generic parts available, but ofcourse these are probably quality tested to extreme levels and made of the very best materials available, orange drops are about as high quality as i will go when it comes to caps (i was tempted to buy hovland musicaps or mallorys once though for a treble bleed but the price is way to high).

Edited April 14, 2007 by Samba Pa Ti

[mikhailgtrski]

FWIW - this is Mojo's comparison:

Guitar Capacitor Characteristics

We tested a few various caps for guitar and discovered some subtle but noticable differences. These were all .022 caps used on the bridge position pickup of a Gibson SG. The various types were in order Orange Drop .022 @ 100v, Dijon .022 @630v, Ceramic Disc .022 @ 50v, and Vitamin T .022 @ 600v.

Orange Drop- Warmer and rounder than the ceramic disc but slightly sterile on the top end. Not very transparent when rolled back(No Sparkle)

Dijon- Nice Warmth and round tone with a smooth organic top end sparkle. Remained transparent when rolled back.

Vitamin T- Much like the Dijon but slightly warmer and spongier than the Dijon with a little less transparency on the top end.

Ceramic Disc- Sterile, Harsh and piercing top end and very sterile on the roll back.

In a nut shell the Dijons and the Vitamin T's are a more organic sounding cap (The top end is much like a tube amps' characteristics) The Orange Drops and Ceramic Discs were a more sterile sounding cap (The top end is much like a solid state amps' characteristics)

[modman]

FWIW - this is Mojo's comparison:

Guitar Capacitor Characteristics

We tested a few various caps for guitar and discovered some subtle but noticable differences. These were all .022 caps used on the bridge position pickup of a Gibson SG. The various types were in order Orange Drop .022 @ 100v, Dijon .022 @630v, Ceramic Disc .022 @ 50v, and Vitamin T .022 @ 600v.

Orange Drop- Warmer and rounder than the ceramic disc but slightly sterile on the top end. Not very transparent when rolled back(No Sparkle)

Dijon- Nice Warmth and round tone with a smooth organic top end sparkle. Remained transparent when rolled back.

Vitamin T- Much like the Dijon but slightly warmer and spongier than the Dijon with a little less transparency on the top end.

Ceramic Disc- Sterile, Harsh and piercing top end and very sterile on the roll back.

In a nut shell the Dijons and the Vitamin T's are a more organic sounding cap (The top end is much like a tube amps' characteristics) The Orange Drops and Ceramic Discs were a more sterile sounding cap (The top end is much like a solid state amps' characteristics)

Remember that a capacitor in your tone controls determined how much TREBLE you throw away.

It doesn't add anything at all. Don't understand what they mean with "rolled back" at all. To test the cap, you should keep your tone control as low as possible. That's the cap in full action.

Remember that the real old strats or lp's had a CERAMIC disk and the negative characteristic noted above "harsh and piercing" seem interesting but how can a guitar sound like that with a cap in the circuit.

a cap is a cap and what it does is in the first place determined by the actual value, which you can measure if you have a meter with capacitance setting. Better to invest in one of these first (only the price of a handful of magic caps

[jnewman]

There actually is more to how caps behave than just their capacitance and voltage rating. You can see this if you put them under a fast oscillating load and watch them on an oscilloscope. I'm not necessarily saying that switching to some primo boutique cap will make your guitar sound magically better (or that it won't, I haven't tried it), but the statement that a cap is defined completely by its capacitance and voltage rating is incorrect.

How many people are surprised that they decided their own caps are the best?

Edited April 15, 2007 by jnewman

[Samba Pa Ti]

i guess its just like building anything, (computers for instance) some people just want the best quality parts and cant see a point in putting a cheap 10$ PSU into a computer when it has $900 worth of parts, same could be said about guitars using an expensive caps that alter the tone might not be better sounding or last longer than a cheaper version but it wont let down the rest of the parts in the guitar.

on another note, i was wondering how the varitone/vari-tone thing worked its just a 6 way switch with 5 caps soldered to each lug, would this be like having the tone knob on 10 or 0 when each cap is selected ?

also im wondering what happens when you turn the tone pot all the way down (to 0) and it drops all the highs is that the capacitor at 100% ? ifso i wouldnt want the varitone if its everything on 100% all the time. (i find my guitars go really muddy with tone pots turned to 0, it sounds find for metal distortion but i dont have a need for that)

[modman]

http://www.vacuumtube.com/VTV%20Ultratonecaps.htm

even more expensive, thus better?

Samba,

I don't think you can compare a psu function to that of a cap. You better make sure to have a stable powersupply otherwise you'll fry the microelectronics out completely.

0 at tonepot means highest resistance on the pot, thus more signal passing through the cap to ground.

You cannot add anything in a passive circuit. Removing the tone pot is like having it on 10 all the time.

Idem ditto for the Varitone you select caps to ground, but maybe you could just jumpwire the lthe most trebly position, ie taking any cap out of the circuit.

Do you have sources for that 33H coil in the varitone.

mm

[Samba Pa Ti]

i wasn't exactely comparing the function but more saying people might like to put more expensive electronics inside their guitar (as it seems to be better quality) if they have expensive pickups or somthing like that.

now im more confused about the varitone/tone pot and how all that crap works, i assume switching through a varitone is just like having each capacitor at 10 on the tonepot and 1 posistion is bypass (no cap at all/clean).

i was looking at this pot here : http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_passive.html

il post the info here and picture links incase the site dies as well.

V6 - 6 Position Varitone (for Guitar)

5 interesting tonal filters plus a true-bypass position

Position 1 = true bypass

Position 2 = subtle cut of highs - softens up a harsh tone

Position 3 = clapton style "woman tone" - works great with overdrive for a nice creamy distortion

Position 4 = mid-scoop - hollow tone just like my passive mid-scoop controls which works well for funky rhythms

Position 5 = warm jazz - great if you are after a unique tone for jazz

Position 6 = dark jazz - a more dramatic effect

Comes with Chicken Head knob, but you can put any knob on this provided it tightens with a set screw

Easy installation - just connect 2 wires, one to hot and the other to ground

Includes detailed instructions.

http://www.guitar-mod.com/images/varitone/varitone2.jpg

Edited April 16, 2007 by Samba Pa Ti

[mikhailgtrski]

Seems I stirred things up a bit...

I don't know how much difference you'd hear in a guitar tone circuit (I didn't even put one in my guitar), but I'm certain that there are audible differences when different caps are used in amplifier tone stacks.

[jnewman]

I have spent a fair bit of time recently on www.18watt.com, which seems to me to be a great amp building forum. I've built a few amps lately, but not enough to give you an opinion out of my own experience. However, the general opinion I have seen expressed over there is that there are some differences in sound between the different types (generally recently made amps use either Sprague Orange Drops or Mallory 150 caps, which are both about the same price and pretty cheap. Fenders have almost always used Orange Drops, Marshalls a long time ago used Mullard "mustard" caps, more recently have used Mallory 150's. Some people use a repro "mustard" cap made by SoZo.). Apparently, though, the coupling caps between stages make at least as much difference as the tone stack caps do (these are also usually Orange Drops or M150's or the "mustard" caps). A vacuum tube amplifies an AC signal but there's also a large DC voltage on the output which must be removed before the next stage, so there are caps between each tube stage, and these are the coupling capacitors. I've also seen the general opinion that the electrolytics used in the power supply and as cathode caps make no difference in sound.

With that said, there are a few people over there who have used super-fancy caps (like Hovland Musicaps, or Auricaps, or the Cardas Golden Ratio caps, etc.) but most of the people who build a lot of amps say it's not worth the cost.

I do know plenty of stereo amp builders who use the super-fancy ones. Some of them say that they sound better, and some of them say it just lets them charge people twice as much.

Of course, there are also some audiophiles who spend $500 or more on a power cable with solid silver 14ga conductors.

Edited April 16, 2007 by jnewman