Building Vs. Buying

[Conflagration]

I've begun working on an ESP Alexi, but I'll be doing some different stuff than ESP does. Because of the limitations of one pickup, I'll be adding another one in, and making them both active. My friend has been saying that I don't have the experience to make a better guitar than a company that has been making them solidly for years, and I disagree. Do you guys think that it's possible make it worth spending about the same amount of money and a lot more time building a guitar that I could get stock, or would it not compare to the LTD?

[Rick500]

The mass manufacturers have to build in compromises in order to appeal to the largest consumer base possible.

You can do any weird thing you want that no one else but you might like.

So it depends on what you mean by "better." I think I can make a guitar that's better to me, than the big guys can, because I can make it (within the limits of my abilities) precisely the way I like it.

[Edit: Didn't mean to imply that you will immediately have the skill to do everything you want on the first one.]

[Daniel Sorbera]

One shouldn't try to build a dream guitar on the first try. Get some inexpensive woods/hardware and build something simple. I *highly* recommend buying the book "build your own electric guitar" by Melvyn Hiscock.

Trying to build your "dream guitar" on your first try, I'm sorry to say, will most likely end in disaster. It's not something thats easy to do, especially if you don't have previous woodworking skills. If you just want a guitar like an esp, I recommend buying an esp.

Guitar building is a hobby, an art that you perfect after much hard work over the years. Not a way to save money by buying a guitar out of a store.

[GregP]

The odds of you building a guitar in the league of ESP right from the starting blocks is very slim. But I've seen it done here before, so don't let anyone discourage you IF-- and this is an important "if"-- learning to build a guitar is more important to you than getting that quality of guitar.

Also, all said and done... you will spend more on building the guitar than buying it.

So, to recap-- it would be a surprise if you could build something better than ESP, but it's not an impossible dream. But do it because you want to learn how to build a guitar and think you will enjoy the process. Don't do it for the sake of getting the guitar. You'd be much better off buying one, otherwise.

[Mr. Preston Swift]

One shouldn't try to build a dream guitar on the first try. Get some inexpensive woods/hardware and build something simple. I *highly* recommend buying the book "build your own electric guitar" by Melvyn Hiscock.

Trying to build your "dream guitar" on your first try, I'm sorry to say, will most likely end in disaster. It's not something thats easy to do, especially if you don't have previous woodworking skills. If you just want a guitar like an esp, I recommend buying an esp.

Guitar building is a hobby, an art that you perfect after much hard work over the years. Not a way to save money by buying a guitar out of a store.

i actually just started my first this year to save money cause i was 14 and didn't have a source of income. As i was building i found out that it's fun to do overall and a good challenge if your bored. Good hobby too. But yeah, you can put all sorts of weird crap on your custom made gitbox and brag to people who have to comprise while you can just add on what you want.

[fryovanni]

If you have to ask if it is possible then no one can answer your question.

As a first time builder you WILL be hard pressed to match the fit and finish of a $200 factory guitar(that is not an exageration, if you believe otherwise you are probably not being very honest with yourself or lack the experience to understand why that is true). They lack in time for proper set-ups (because you are not paying for that time), use low priced hardware and electronics(look at the price tag), they also will not have time to select wood piece by piece(time is money). What they do not lack in is large accurate machines, and people with a lot of experience doing tasks over and over. Now that is a company making buget guitars for the masses(ESP, is going to have a little higher quality control and may be able to spend a few more minutes on a guitar).

Now can your first guitar be amazingly well exicuted. Absolutely! You will have to put in a LOT of time planning, researching, getting the proper tools and jigs in place, practice on scrap, have patience and do NOT rush any aspect of the build. Like I said YOU will know if you are doing these things and will not have to ask as to what is possible. The brand spanking new builders that knock their first out of the park seem to be a little more independant than most and are willing to plan very well. They understand their ability, and tend not to rely on others to find what they need to get the job done.

Peace,Rich

[erikbojerik]

I should add that while it is certainly not cheaper to build one than to buy a production model, building does spread the cost out over the length of time it takes you to build it.

I always buy the bridge first (everything depends on it), pickups in the middle, and I'm always scrambling for the various electronic bits (pots, caps, jacks, etc) at the end.

[cherokee6]

Here we go again with this topic!

[ihocky2]

While everyone else is correct that you will not come close to the cost of a LTD, if you are looking at a signature series from ESP, you are probably looking at a $1000 or more guitar. You can definitely build a guitar for less than $1000. That is not including any tools you buy or the cost of havign a fret job done buy a quality luthier. I've seen fret dressing go for over $100, so I am guessing a full fret job is going to cost more than a LTD alone. The very first thing you must understand is that patience is King and planning is queen. Everything else is making wood chips and sweat. The builders who make the best first products are the guys who can make a mistake and stop and think about a way to fix it without compromising quality. There are a lot of guys on here who plan guitars for almost a year before even buying the first piece of lumber. I am just starting my second build, and have been planning it for about 8 months not, I have built the thing about 20 times in my head. The more work you do up front, the better it will turn out. Buy books, use the search feature on this site, find others sites about guitar building, finishing, and repair. Knowledge is invaluable.

[levelhead86]

The guitar I'm building is a neckthru RG7.... and other than the fact that a production model doesn't exist, I've bought all the supplies for the guitar and THEN SOME... and it's only costed me $300, whereas, a custom shop model build to my specs could cost 10 times that....

The only big issue was making sure I bought all the appropriate equipment to make the guitar in great quality, and that costed probally another $1000, but that was because I had crappy tools starting out; and even STILL it'll cost less than buying a custom shop model.

The next guitar I build will cost significantly less, because I have a lot of leftover supplies and I know the mistakes to NOT make; and I also know where to buy supplies for the best price. So to me, ultimately, you're better off building your guitar unless your dream guitar is a Squier or some other "beginner" guitar.

Hope I was SOME help.

Edited April 25, 2007 by levelhead86

[MCH]

With any custom build I think the advantage is creativity and the ability to put together various aspects of production guitars that you like. If your goal is just to have a guitar to play and want to save money, then there are a lot of cheaper production guitars that will fit the bill nicely.

I enjoy the creativity aspect and the actual challenge of the build. Of course the pride after you string it up and strike the first note and muse to yourself, "I built this".

[ryema22]

If your biggest goal was simply to get an ESP Alexi with two active pickups, why not buy the ESP Alexi, rout a new cavity in the body, and add the pickup configuration you want? That's still a challenging project for a beginner but it's a lot less work than starting entirely from scratch. That's also a project that has a much higher probability of success than building from scratch if your goal is to have a factory quality guitar on the first try.

[Petrol]

I may not have built a guitar before (though intend to attempt to soon) but it's clear opinion is divided into several camps here.

First you have the "Don't run before you can walk" school, which is fine, and where I sit myself. Keep it simple, plan, and if you do things without haste and for a first attempt make something simple (No triple neck with a fanned fret nine string, 12 string and bass) and have the motivation, then it will turn out well hopefully.

The second school is the if you plan it, then try something a little tricky- after all, you don't learn without attempting something. This is true, and cool enough- but not fool proof (as a professional fool, it doesn't suit me!) but for people who have some woodwroking experience and who are hell bent on making only ever one guitar, a great option.

Then there's the lazy school of just buy one and do some routing. Personally, yes, you could and it would be easier. But, doing from scratch allows you to fiddle with other stuff like headstock shape, finish etc. which you want to be unique from the ground up.

Ultimately, I think it's better building- if you enjoy building and are after a really unique axe that would normally be a custom job. If, however, you just love a plain, simple, strat with no bells or whistles and hate woodwork, then buy that. It's always your choice, and it's always a matter of preference. My thoughts are that buy building guitars you learn many useful skills that can be applied to other aspects of woodworking, painting and design, you have to create a hybrid design which must seemlessly integrate artistic elegancy and technical functionality. Few people can combine scientific and artistic creativity, originallity and function. This is one of the few hobbies that can.

Pete

[westhemann]

$300 for all parts and wood to build a guitar?

Well,i don't know about that,but the proper bridge and pickups on my guitars cost more than that.If your dream guitar consists of a $20 bridge and $40 pickups,then you might as well buy an epiphone,squire,or ltd...

For me,the whole purpose is to build a BETTER guitar,not a cheaper one.

[pmarlin]

Lol ,yeah my Seymore Duncan Distortion Mayhems just ate up half that $300 budget.

[levelhead86]

The neck portion on mine is a 3 piece mahogany, the fretboard is mahogany, and the wings are hard maple. The tuners are gotoh minis, and I did a TOM string-thru, so that explains it not costing a lot there; and I'm just using Duncan Designs *I had laying around, I bought for $20* in the beginning to be replaced with prolly Bareknuckles afterward....

Again.. this is my first full-scale build, so that's the only reason I'm cheapskating it on the pickups and if everything in the playability of the guitar is to my liking, I'll drop the $150-$200 on a better set afterward.

If to be a "Dream guitar" it has to have a Floyd Rose, and EMGs *or whatever premium aftermarket pickup you want*, then I've got a "dream" Washburn at home that only costed me $300 itself... just because it's cheap, doesn't mean it's "cheap".

Edited April 25, 2007 by levelhead86

[fryovanni]

A couple thoughts for the fellas thinking a home built guitar is cheaper. One- You are looking at material costs, and are not factoring anything for your labor, nor are you looking at supplies, wear and tear on tools, or energy expense. You would find it would be a challenge to match costing(assuming you factor in fast food resturant wages for your time). That said cost should not be the motivation when building a guitar yourself(do it because you love the hobby). I guess it would also be worth mentioning that your guitar(being as you are not a recognized builder) will have little resale value. Where as a custom shop ESP will certainly have a fair resale value. That is an honest part of the cost to value equation.

I love the hobby. I enjoy the work. It is very satifying to me. That is why I build, and am willing to invest so much in the hobby. I have invested a lot(time, equipment, materials) to be able to build, and yes I can buy all the parts for less than I could buy many guitars. My time(based on this investment) is worth much more now and I still would never try to compete with factory prices because of that. If someone asked me to build an ESP for them at custom shop rates, it would not be worth it to me(unless it was a project that interested me). If I built them a beautiful guitar for the same price as that custom shop guitar. They would be eating a heafty loss on the re-sale value, and I would not be doing them a favor(in the value sense).

[westhemann]

If to be a "Dream guitar" it has to have a Floyd Rose, and EMGs *or whatever premium aftermarket pickup you want*, then I've got a "dream" Washburn at home that only costed me $300 itself...

You don't have a guitar with a Floyd rose original and EMG 81/85 pickups for $300 new.The least expensive i have seen is more around the $650 - $700 mark.

[levelhead86]

If to be a "Dream guitar" it has to have a Floyd Rose, and EMGs *or whatever premium aftermarket pickup you want*, then I've got a "dream" Washburn at home that only costed me $300 itself...

You don't have a guitar with a Floyd rose original and EMG 81/85 pickups for $300 new.The least expensive i have seen is more around the $650 - $700 mark.

They're EMG HZs, and I added the original FR afterward, and the guitar was used. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue with you about what I have or don't have, and what it costed, or didn't cost me in an open forum. You're a great builder, and seem to be a really experienced player, but that doesn't give you the right to totally railroad the topic just because you disagree with the numbers I put on here. Just because I'm sure to find a deal on things before I buy them doesn't mean I'm either lying or all my equipment is junk.

Edited April 25, 2007 by levelhead86

[Daniel Sorbera]

I spent just under $950 on the GOTM winner, and thats only the actual hardware/wood. That doesn't include the cost of finish, grainfiller, new blades/parts for tools, labor, etc etc.

It really is not cheap to build a *high quality* guitar from scratch. Especially your first one. Even if you already have many woodworking tools there are a few special ones you need that cost a fair penny.

[ryema22]

Then there's the lazy school of just buy one and do some routing. Personally, yes, you could and it would be easier. But, doing from scratch allows you to fiddle with other stuff like headstock shape, finish etc. which you want to be unique from the ground up.

I wasn't suggesting the original poster be "lazy". He said what he wanted was essentially an ESP Alexi with a different pickup configuration and he never responded as to whether he was actually interested in making the investment of time and money to actually learn how to build a quality guitar from the ground up or not. I love this hobby but it's definately not for everyone either. Modifying a factory guitar to suit the player's preferences instead of building from scratch is nothing to be ashamed of, it's just being practical.

[Acousticraft]

There is no way I can build even a very basic electric guitar in NZ without it costing about 50% more than a brand new Squire Strat.

I cant even buy the parts for what one of them cost here.

I liken guitar building to boat building. The wood is the cheap part but the hardware cost is where the price soars.

But then that basic guitar you build does not have a plywood body but probably has wood as good as a custom guitar.

[levelhead86]

The wood is the cheap part but the hardware cost is where the price soars.

But then that basic guitar you build does not have a plywood body but probably has wood as good as a custom guitar.

That's my sentiments exactly... As far as I've seen, the markup on guitars that come from the factory with premium parts is FAR beyond the price of putting it together yourself, or even hot rodding a "cheaper" guitar with the premium parts. This can be seen ala Alexi LTD lists for $1,499 and the ESP version lists for $2,669, and the only substantial PHYSICAL difference between the two being a different locking nut, and different tuning machines. And mind you, for those prices, you're getting a solid color paintjob so it's not likely there's AAAA top wood sitting underneath the finish.

I'd never try to compete with the price of Squier Strat vs. building the same, but I am guaranteeing I'd be paying a buttload more for a neckthru RG7, baritone scale from ibanez, even if it had piece of crap pot-metal hardware, then if I made one myself with better hardware.

The only difference overall is if you're planning on reselling the guitar afterward, then yeah, you're looking at losing some money; but don't forget that those big time dealers aren't paying full retail for all the wood, hardware, electronics, and finish like us hobbiests are mostly paying; so they're paying significantly less PER PART then you would. So yeah, resale is likely not going to favor you on a custom job unless you've got a good reputation and/or a real deal custom shop; but that shouldn't stop you from building a guitar for you, at your specs.

Edited April 26, 2007 by levelhead86

[westhemann]

They're EMG HZs, and I added the original FR afterward, and the guitar was used. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue with you about what I have or don't have, and what it costed, or didn't cost me in an open forum. You're a great builder, and seem to be a really experienced player, but that doesn't give you the right to totally railroad the topic just because you disagree with the numbers I put on here. Just because I'm sure to find a deal on things before I buy them doesn't mean I'm either lying or all my equipment is junk.

For a guy with level head in your name,it seems you really aren't.What's up with that?

Read my posts again.I railroaded nothing.But obviously what I said was true.All it really boils down to is are you more interested in giving the facts to a potential new builder,or in shining the guy on with a "rose colored glasses" style vision.

Anybody that asks the question "Is it cheaper to build or buy" on this forum is going to get my full opinion,regardless of whether it agrees with your opinion or not.I have spent multiple thousands on equipment,wood,and hardware on building,and so far I only have two truly exceptional guitars out of it(by my standards),with a third on the way.the 4 or so before were not good enough.

So trust that I will not back down on my opinion that exceeding the quality of the Alex Laiho LTD is highly unlikely on a first build,and even more unlikely is doing it for less money than the LTD costs.

My point was,and still is,that i build to exceed the quality of what i can buy,and only recently do I feel confident that I can build a top quality guitar for less than I can buy the equivelent custom.And that is only because my time is free for me.

[levelhead86]

Ok Wes, here's the thing... single comments that state things such as "You don't have a guitar with a Floyd rose original and EMG 81/85 pickups for $300 new.The least expensive i have seen is more around the $650 - $700 mark." are nothing more than accusing, argumentative, and TOTALLY looks like railroading the subject at hand. I'm equally as guilty of this, by butting heads in here when I should be more subjective, like you are most of the time, and I apologize.

I'm not going to disagree that you build your guitars using better materials *woods, pickups, hardware* than most custom shops/premium factory guitars I've seen/played.

Most of what I've learned on here, I've learned from reading your *Wes* or Perry's write-ups and because I know I'm inexperienced in "from the ground up" type builds, I've been sure to sit and contemplate each and every cut on my first project so that the results are something I'm satisifed with and can use. And so far, that's been the case... *I'll prolly post the whole thing when I'm done.* Mind you, I'm about 8 months into the build, and I haven't even got to routing the truss channel yet because I'm working a piece at a time, and buying the tools I need as I go along *whenever it calls for something I don't have*, rather than just cob-jobbing it with whatever I've got.

So I'm NOT trying to suggest that a great guitar will be built overnight, on a shoestring budget and go head-to-head with the quality of it's pro-shop equivalent.

The only point I'm making here, is that if somebody starting out has experience working with wood *the kind that comes from trees, not the other*, has a clear focus on what they're trying to make, takes their time, has the right tools *even if it's in a friend's shop, or the schools shop, or the local furniture builder* and shops smartly for their supplies; then they can have a great quality first attempt *and likely accomplishment* without spending several thousand dollars. I've seen it before, and though it's uncommon *just because most people RUSH, and cut corners on things they shouldn't*, you can turnover great results in your first few builds. And there's a few members on here who have experienced that.