The Most Ergonomic Guitar

[zeppelinchld]

What do you guys think is the most ergonomic guitar u have ever seen. in terms of playabillity and ease of use when sitting or standing. i know that most of you hav seen THE ergonomic guitar, im talking about other guitars.

personally i think that ibanez jems are very ergonomic because of the bigger horn areas near the lower frets.

[Southpa]

strat

[prs man]

strat or tele mostly strat

[zeppelinchld]

im guessing that the strat style bodies will be a popular choice? have you seen any ergonomic v's? i want to build a v but i dont know how much i would use it because most of them arent designed well in my opinion

[Mr. Preston Swift]

jackson soloist (i forget exactly what type) because of the extended cutaway that goes beyond the 24th. also the body contours are a big plus.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Mr. Preston Swift

[Jon]

I'm a bassist, but the ideas can still be applied to guitars. Yamaha TRB's and Spector Legend basses. I love how the Legend body is radiused, it feels very natural to play. There is no armrest, which I don't use anyways because I rest my arm on the waist area, so the curve feels great. The TRB is just the perfect mass produced body design (I like custom shapes more). Very comfortable when playing up higher on the neck and great overall balance.

Spector Legend 6

Yamaha TRB 6

[zeppelinchld]

i really like the design of that TBR. i might incorpate some of that w/ my next guitar.

[GregP]

Is this the twilight zone? Strats and superstrats being called "the most ergonomic guitar"?

Not sure what "the" ergonomic guitar is since there are several, but the Klein and even the Ovation Breadwinner spring to mind. There are plenty more ergonomic than a strat, too!

Only vaguely related plug for Robert Irazarry's (a member of PG) blog. If you're talking ergonomics in guitars, BTEG has fast become an important dot on the internet map!

http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.com/

[Drak]

Well, I can build just about any body shape I want, and I typically build light bodied Telecasters with rear bouts.

Works for me better than most anything else I've experienced. The weight is calculated to be just what I want, and it hangs exactly the way I want a guitar to hang on me. It is supremely comfortable to me.

I have even changed my mind about building Heavy Metal Teles. I used to scoff at the idea, but I have come to the conclusion that the Telecaster is the most ergonomically correct body style for me, period, and whatever kind of guitar I want in the future will have a Telecaster shape with whatever type of wood/electronics I want, but that shape is ergonomically 110% correct for me.

If I want a Gretch hollowbody, it will be in a Tele form.

If I want a twin HB Floyd guitar, it will be a Tele design.

If I want a Charlie Christian Jazzer, it'll be a hollowbody Tele design.

If I want a Dobro, I will build a Telecaster shaped Dobro, you can bank on it.

Use what works for you and never listen to the crowd, what do they know, they are not you.

Trust in the voice that speaks from within yourself.

I don't believe that guitars have to be the shape of a rounded Mcfobulator to be ergonomically designed, that is guitar racism and guitar profiling.

Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[I'm Not Rex Brown]

i love the V shape for guitars

and for bases i have to agree with JON. i bought spector few weeks ago, and i love it it's comfortable when u sit, stand(no matter how high or low is bass) the neck is comfortable, radiused body weel i just love my bass

[uglogirl]

Strat or Jaguar/Jazz/Jagmaster. Ever notice how most girl guitarists seem to play Fenders? They uh, fit better.

Uglogirl

[Jon]

[westhemann]

That girl in Warface also plays V shaped guitars.They are generally smaller guitars,which is why I like them.

Hey Jon,when did Dee Schneider get boobs?

[westhemann]

By the way I no longer play strat shaped guitars,even though that is all I used to play,because every since I played my first V I could never go back.A well designed V has unlimited upper fret access and balances perfectly.

Of course my exploder plays just like a V...the extended cutaway on it really makes a difference.

[Drak]

I was going to say that, that for Wes, a V would probably be the most ergonomically correct body shape.

All people are created different, and to say that any single guitar wins some award for being the most ergonomically correct design is absurd.

Some of those 'ergonomically designed' guitars are indeed quite beautiful, and for those people who play them, maybe they are the best fit for them, but all people are different, and thusly, there can be no one design or science better than all the rest.

That is like saying there is one scientifically proven brand of blue jeans that everyone in the world should like the best.

[Samba Pa Ti]

some strats are nice but i find i cut my hand on the bridge if i rest my arm on the top, so id have to say i prefer Tele's more (even though the body is a lot more square i find it more comfortable)

[docbass]

Well, for me the most comfortable basses I have are my T-birds. They fit me perfectly, but we're all different! The guitarist in my band only plays Parker Flys, has 5 or 6 of them and swears by 'em.

[Robert Irizarry]

I was going to say that, that for Wes, a V would probably be the most ergonomically correct body shape.

All people are created different, and to say that any single guitar wins some award for being the most ergonomically correct design is absurd.

Some of those 'ergonomically designed' guitars are indeed quite beautiful, and for those people who play them, maybe they are the best fit for them, but all people are different, and thusly, there can be no one design or science better than all the rest.

That is like saying there is one scientifically proven brand of blue jeans that everyone in the world should like the best.

While variables will exist this doesn't make everything completely fluid either as you suggest. To claim that human beings are so different that certain design or scientific approaches are without merit is as absurd as someone claiming ONE perfect solution. To state this is to deny entire bodies of knowledge around technique, physiology, kinesiology and the science of ergonomics. While we obviously vary from person to person, the very nature of how our musculoskeletal system operates demands that there are certain preferred approaches in order to best serve its efficient and healthy operation.

Regards,

Robert

[westhemann]

While we obviously vary from person to person, the very nature of how our musculoskeletal system operates demands that there are certain preferred approaches in order to best serve its efficient and healthy operation.

That applies to the general nature of the instrument,not to the fairly minute differences between a strat,a V ,or a tele...None of those are going to put undue strain on our "musculoskeletal system".

Maybe my physique would make a mockery of your "ergonomic guitar"?...by looking at it I think it would be vastly less playable for me than my V or my Exploder.

To claim that human beings are so different that certain design or scientific approaches are without merit is as absurd as someone claiming ONE perfect solution.

What I find absurd is the somewhat egotistical claim that any such claim was made in the first place.Seems a waste of outrage,if you ask me.

[GregP]

The point is that there are some very DEFINITE and scientifically-backed claims that can go into what's classed as "ergonomic". A strat, tele, V, etc. just ain't it.

Guitar neck position, angled upward (which is what the Klein body does) puts your wrist (ANY human wrist) in a more optimized position for your joints and muscles to work in harmony on a guitar fretboard. That's just one example.

None of the typical guitars are actually very ergonomic. I love the way a tele feels, too. It feels "right" to me, compared to a lot of other guitars. But I'm also able to objectively evaluate that the feeling of "yup this guitar is the one for me" does NOT equal actual ergonomics.

Think of all the people who feel weird alien goofiness when using an "ergonomic" keyboard... that's why the rectangular standard keyboard still proliferates. But it's obvious and proven that the keys on "ergonomic" keyboards ARE in better position, reduce RSI, etc. etc. Just because they feel goofy at first doesn't make them less ergonomic, and just because a standard keyboard continues to "feel right" for most people doesn't mean that they're getting ergonomic benefits.

That's why I said I felt like I was in the twilight zone... apparently there's a big misunderstanding about the science of ergonomics here...

Greg

[Robert Irizarry]

That applies to the general nature of the instrument,not to the fairly minute differences between a strat,a V ,or a tele...None of those are going to put undue strain on our "musculoskeletal system".

Sorry if I don't consider the differences things like the sitting position of a strat vs. a vee "minute" or inconsequential. And, if we're limiting ourselves to the strat, the vee and the tele then there isn't much to discuss. But since this WAS a thread about ergonomics I was expecting it go just a bit beyond what everyone already knows. Besides, this is a forum for and about guitar building. I would think we could be a bit more expansive in our thinking.

And yes there are inherent problems in the "nature of the instrument" but elements of that can be refined and rethought without the guitar losing its nature. That's what ergonomics is about. Look up the definition of ergonomics and it talks about designing to fit the way the human body works. If we stop at what we know then nothing changes and nothing improves. And while this may have not been your intent, someone reading your comment might think that the guitar has no impact on the musculoskeletal system. In fact, this is the system that succumbs to issues of Repetitive Strain Injury, muscular pain and stiffness, and tendinitis. Guitarists have suffered and continue to suffer from all of these. The idea behind designing with ergonomics in mind is to eliminate potential factors where possible and mitigate those that can't be completely eradicated.

Finally, I wish to apologize to Drak if I misunderstood his comments.

BTW - there was no outrage behind my earlier statement.

Regards,

Robert

[thegarehanman]

Any guitar that is not neck heavy, has no sharp edge where you picking arm contacts it, and can be put on a short strap that hikes the guitar up to just about chest level is ergonomically satisfying to me...not always the coolest looking playing position though, I suppose.

[westhemann]

Greg...obviously you have never played a proper V.I play standing up with the neck angled upward and the top of the arm rest of the V body at about my waist line.this puts my picking arm hanging straight down with my hand basically right in front of my crotch(an argument could be made that for a man this is optimum hand position...hehe)

My fretting arm also hangs down straight to the elbow,where my forearm then comes up and my hand wraps perfectly around the neck...neither of my arms has to be held away from my body,as always happens with any strat shaped guitar(or anything with a forearm rest.

http://www.kxkguitars.com/

Take a look at Steve Swanson here...(my guitar is the same as the one pictured)picture the guitar hanging lower in the strap about another 8 inches to a foot,and that is me.

The guitar is actually so well balanced and comfortable that i now build all of my guitars to have the same forearm rest and neck/body join...that should tell you something.

I just feel a little sorry for you guys that only think there is just ONE ergonomically "correct" guitar for everyone.I wear 32 by 36 inch pants,and my shirts have to have a medium sized torso and extra long arms to fit me properly....most people are closer to a reversal of those dimensions(36 by 32 pants)

Is it so hard for you to crack that narrow mind open just a HAIR and realize you are not the world's definition of the perfect person?

to quote the great one..."it's easy if you try"

And while this may have not been your intent, someone reading your comment might think that the guitar has no impact on the musculoskeletal system. In fact, this is the system that succumbs to issues of Repetitive Strain Injury, muscular pain and stiffness, and tendinitis.

I was going to just gloss over your post,since in the last one you basically played the hand of "I pretend to misunderstand your post in order to take umbrage",but I did read it,and you have some good points...but what you are again doing is trying to twist my post to mean the exact opposite of what I actually said.

The entire reason I now play a V and my Exploder and nothing else is because i WAS developing wrist strain from my "forearm rest having" guitars.You see,I pick extremely fast and repetitively(think Deicide),and I get nowhere near the time for practice those guys do.so ergonomics are extremely important to me.

Drak's comments ring very true for me...everyone is obviously different.So that makes you pretty much in the wrong here,because even though you may research the "middle ground of human movement",you take into consideration none of what makes some of us very,very different.

Since i left my other guitars hanging on the wall,I have had no wrist issues.

Wes 1,ergonomic misinterpretation 0

[Ben]

Wow, check out the headstock in the other photo on that page

http://www.kxkguitars.com/Karl_Sanders.html

[westhemann]

Yeah...Rob sits down with his endorsees and designs the guitars with them.Because of that some of them are pretty extreme...like that Nile guitar.Ever listen to Nile?

Some pretty good playing in that band.